On this platform, we are stoked to bring you high performers who are not just chasing and attaining success, but redefining it through above and beyond service. [00:01:00] And squad, really quick note, n- knowledge nugget coming in. As coach, a knowledge nugget coming at you here. Let me drop a… the, this quick knowledge nugget I’m about to drop on you is a, kind of ties in a little bit with a guest I’m gonna bring on.

It’s one of the biggest m- leadership mistakes I see, especially with high performers, is the hidden cost of avoiding hard conversations. People think they’re keeping the peace. They think they’re protecting relationships, but what they’re actually doing is letting problems grow roots. Avoidance feels better, easier for the moment, but it compounds over time.

And before you know it, that small issue you didn’t address turns into frustration, resentment, and a culture where nobody says what actually needs to be said. Strong leaders understand something most people don’t: clarity creates freedom. When expectations are clear and conversations are honest, people can adjust, grow, and move forward.

But when things get unspoken or stay unspoken, the whole environment gets foggy. I saw this with a coaching client recently of mine who runs a solid business. Great operator, hard worker, but he had a team member who wasn’t carrying their weight. Everyone on the team knew them, but nobody addressed it, including him.[00:02:00] 

He kept hoping the situation would fix itself. It didn’t. Productivity dropped, morale dipped, the team started questioning, and finally, we talked about it in a session. I asked him a simple question, “What’s the real cost of the conversation you’re avoiding?” The next day, he sat down with the employee, had an honest conversation he’d been putting off for months, and within two weeks, the entire energy of the team shifted, not because the conversation was easy, but because le- leadership stepped up and brought clarity.

Great leaders don’t run from hard conversations, they run towards them, because discipline in leadership isn’t just about what you do every day, it’s about the conversations you’re willing to have when most people would rather stay comfortable. And th- that’s exactly where we’re diving in today, squad, with my guest.

Again, a huge thank you to No Amy that overseas that books me awesome sauce podcast guests. But we have a guest who lives at the intersection of leadership, culture, and real human performance. Joining us is Dr. Wayne D. Wilson. I’m just gonna call him Dr. Wayne, an executive coach, culture strategist, and leadership catalyst with over 30 years of experience helping leaders perform [00:03:00] when the pressure is on.

Dr. Wayne has worked with senior leaders across healthcare, transport- healthcare, transportation, and mission-driven organizations, helping them align performance with purpose and lead with emotional intelligence when change hits hard. He’s the former dire- director of organizational development at Schneider Fleet Op Solutions, and also the founder of Schneider University, where he helped shape leadership culture from the inside out.

What makes Dr. Wayne unique is his, he blends executive leadership, psychology, and organizational strategy to help teams rebuild trust, navigate change, and create cultures that actually perform. ‘Cause as Wayne teaches, organizations rarely fail because of strategy, they fail because their culture breaks down.

And Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for coming on. Please introduce yourself to the Time to Shine Today podcast varsity squad, but first, what’s your favorite color and why? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I heard you ask somebody else this earlier, and I thought about it. Yellow. 

Coach Fergie: Yellow. All right. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yellow. 

Coach Fergie: That’s unique. A lot of people don’t say that, brother.

Why 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: the love of yellow? I know. There you go. I love yellow. The office that I’m sitting in, the walls are [00:04:00] painted yellow. That’s 

Coach Fergie: beautiful. I love it. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: So if we asked the people who work closest with you, describe you off the clock, right? What would they say Dr. Wayne is when he’s not in leadership mode?

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Quiet, reflective, thoughtful 

Coach Fergie: Love it. That’s exactly what I got. I’m here going, blabbering on, and you’re just like do, do. It was, like, perfect. It was, like, a perfect guest when you come on, brother. So I need to hear the roots because you’re immensely respected, highly sought after, so I need to hear the roots of how you got to where, you…

We talked a little bit off the mic about W-2- Yeah … into what you’re doing now. Yeah. And you’re really leveling people up, and again, you’re helping them close that, that gap. I get introduced on stage as the gap coach. People’s like, “What’s that?” So it’s like you’re here, you wanna get here, we help bridge that gap.

So tell us a little bit about your roots, Dr. Wayne. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I’ll give you the high level version of how I got here, right? So in college I had a, a bachelor’s degree in mass communications. I wanted to be in advertising, so I was gonna be an advertising exec. That’s who my wife married, [00:05:00] was a potential advertising exec.

Coach Fergie: A madman. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: She said, “I didn’t m- I didn’t sign up for this,” were her common words. So I was gonna be a, an advertising executive. Make the long story short, got a bachelor’s degree spent some time in radio, spent some time in television production, spent some time in newspaper production. I was getting all the background, Coach Scotty.

I was chasing it. I got a job out of college selling radio advertising for Magic 103.7- 

Coach Fergie: Was that in 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Hawaii- … in Lexington, Kentucky … or where was that at? 

Coach Fergie: That was an oldies station in Lexington, Kentucky. Lexington, Kentucky. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I love it. It doesn’t exist anymore. And I hated it- Oh … from day one.

Hated it. It was not a world that I was prepared for in terms of the the, the- Rejection. 

Coach Fergie: Did 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: you- I was just… the best way I know to say it is sales and advertising is cutthroat, dark and just hard charging. Oh. And I was not ready for that. [00:06:00] And so I, to make a long story short, left that went chasing a master’s degree in education.

Thought I was gonna shift that. Ended up taking some classes at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in pastoral care and counseling. It was r- a prerequisite for my major. It wasn’t my major. H- here’s the thing that caught me, and it’s what I chase today, and it’s why I do what I do. I went home, I remember this day like it was yesterday.

I went home sat down at the kitchen table, looked at my wife and said, “I’m switching majors from education to pastoral care and counseling.” She said how come?” I said I’ll tell you what. I don’t know who these men are. I don’t know exactly what they do, but I can tell you right now I wanna be like them.”

Coach Fergie: What’d you see in them, Doc? Did, did you- There were three professors. They were authentic. 

Okay. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: They were incredibly genuine and transparent [00:07:00] They did what you said, you just said a few minutes ago that top leaders in the country can’t do. They could have hard conversations. They could look you in the eye and tell you the truth, and you still felt cared about.

Coach Fergie: Ooh, love that. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And th- and I went home and I said I need to learn more about who these men are and how they tick.” And that’s what I did. I took a deep dive in psychology and theology in the Department of Pastoral Care and Counseling, got a master’s degree, got a doctorate. Wow. Then applying that to organizations.

My doctorate is applying that work into organizations, starting with congregations, and then it’s gone from there. So I started a little church in rural Kentucky- Really? … and I ended up at Snyder Fleet Solutions with 1,000 employees, a half a billion dollar company, leading all of their talent management and professional development.

Coach Fergie: Wow. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. And so now I coach people from all over the world, from England to to Statesville, North Carolina. God, you got a good hand in this. I love it. And I’m still developing leaders. I, my goal was to develop as a leader, and I [00:08:00] did that, and now my goal is to develop leaders, right?

Dr. Wayne Oates, the guy who inspired that story who’s passed away, he looked at me one time pointed at me, Coach, and said, “Son, people don’t care what you know- … till they know that you care.” 

Coach Fergie: That… 100%, man. Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And who you are is far more important than what you do. 

Coach Fergie: Yes. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: He said, “What will trip you up and what trips every leader up is not their behavior, it’s who they are.”

Yes. It’s their character. 

Coach Fergie: 100%. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And I’ve spent 50 years since then, that day learning why that happens, unpacking it, and guiding people to do that. That’s my 

Coach Fergie: story. And it, what I love about it is it’s fun. Because, again, with, we’re both colleagues, you and I. And it’s like we get to wear a different hat every day, and our- Oh, yeah

I’m sure your superpower, just like mine, is curiosity. Yeah. It has to be- Yeah … in our situation. Yeah. A- and [00:09:00] to be able to help people, because we all know what we want, we just don’t know how to talk ourselves into it, right? Yeah. That’s- Yeah … that’s what it is. Yeah. And when we know that every challenge resides in that heart- 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah

Coach Fergie: the, the answer’s there, too, and just to help people through our curiosity- Oh, yeah … pull it out and then hold them accountable. It’s the best, right? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: It’s the best. Peop- people ask me what I do, and people, they say what do you do?” I say, “I guide thought process.” 

Coach Fergie: I love it. I love that. Yeah. That’s beautiful.

So you’ve worked with leaders in high pressure industries, for decades. Yep. Okay? I’m not trying to age us, leaders- 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Healthcare tran- Healthcare, transportation- Yeah … advertising, law. Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: Love it. You 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: name 

Coach Fergie: it. Yeah. So Doc, when these organizations, culture starts breaking down, what do you think the first warning signs that most leaders, if they’re listening, they might be missing within their own companies?

What do you think that first thing is, signs that most leaders miss? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: That they themselves are complaining about their employees. 

Coach Fergie: 100%, right? Yeah. What do you think that, the roots… [00:10:00] Let’s unpack that just a little bit. Yeah. Because again, it’s a conversation, a hard conversation. ‘Cause, a, follow-up question to this, which I’ll ask you now, actually, when you walk in let’s say a…

It’s usually the human resources or the COO that brings us in, right? Yeah. It’s usually not too much the CEO. They hear about us, they bring us, they sell us to the CEO, then they bring us in, but there’s that person- Yeah … that’s right below the HR. Yeah. And they’re going, “What the heck is this guy doing here?”

It’s whoever’s feeling the pain the most. If it’s a- Yeah. Yes … director or COO. Thank you. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: Thank you, brother. Yeah. 100%. So what is your way that you communicate with them, have that hard conversation that you and I talked about a couple minutes ago? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So here’s what I learned way, way back pastoring churches.

It all starts with the pain. 

Coach Fergie: Oof. So true. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So people come to church, or they go to a counselor. They came to me for 20 years as a marriage and family or individual counselor, and now as a coach, they come to the coach ’cause something’s not right. Someone’s in pain, right? That’s the whole point of Pivot Coaching and [00:11:00] Consulting.

They know it’s time for a change. They know something’s not right. It’s just that 90% of the time they start by blaming or assigning that fault to someone else. 

Coach Fergie: Yes 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So they know something’s wrong. You- Yeah … if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re feeling that you know something’s wrong, you know something’s not right, you’re just looking outside of yourself for the answer to that question.

And so they come to you and they come to me saying, “Ah, I think we could use some coaching.” That’s an, i- that’s a, a soft way of saying I think we need some help,” which is hard to admit. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. Ooh, so true. So good, yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: The COO or the HR director saying, “I got employees that are the problem.”

They go to the CEO and say, “I think this coach can help us fix our employees.” 

Coach Fergie: Or- Yeah, this exact conversation … 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: are you walking with me, Coach? Are you walking with me, Coach? Oh, 100%, 

Coach Fergie: man. Right 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: there. And we walk into the boardroom, and the first time we [00:12:00] lock eyes with that CEO, we know, “You are my man.

You are the one I’m after.” 

Coach Fergie: Yep. Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Because Peter Drucker… peter Drucker? 

Coach Fergie: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Peter Drucker said, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” 

Coach Fergie: Love that. 100, 100% he’s right. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Who’s in charge of the culture? Yeah. That CEO. 

Coach Fergie: Yes. Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: That CEO’s driving the culture, right? So yes, there are problems within the organization.

Yes, there are probably problem leaders, but there, I can guarantee you there are hundreds of conversations that you mentioned earlier in this podcast that have not happened. And they start with that executive. 

Coach Fergie: Absolutely. Yeah, and, so lack of, a lot of those executives that I’ve noticed, I know that you’ve noticed, they say they, they value emotional intelligence, right?

But when the pressure hits, they kinda default to control and ego, right? So why is, then, in, [00:13:00] in your view, is emotional intelligence so hard for powerful leaders to actually practice when things get uncomfortable? What do you notice out there? And some of these are harder questions I usually ask, ’cause I’ve listened to you- It’s fine

and I follow you. It’s fine. And I’m learning, brother, so- It’s fine. It’s fine … teach away. It’s fine. I’m getting a… You guys are getting a free master class. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I 

Coach Fergie: love you. Let’s go, baby. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Thank you. It’s just because they’re, they’ve been, they’ve not been challenged to do their own personal work, and they don’t, they…

Here’s what they would s- always say to me. So good. “I ain’t got, I ain’t got time for that.” 

Coach Fergie: Yes. Yes. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yes. So they’re cha- they’re chasing their lag measures, they’re chasing their EBITDA, they’re chasing their revenue goals, they’re chasing their stock prices. They’re chasing the results. They ain’t got time for that.

And they’re the one get- they’re the one getting in the way. And, but they just haven’t learned how to really sit down and ask the hard questions, which is how am I contributing to this? 

Coach Fergie: Oh, yes. Absolutely. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I- if it starts, if lead- if everything rises and falls on leadership, John Maxwell, right?

Yeah. [00:14:00] If everything rises and falls on leadership, then it’s gotta start with the CEO in some way. And they’re just not accustomed to sitting down, and y- what you and I do is just guide them through that thought process. Yeah. We just guide them to think about the answer to that question, how am I contributing to what’s going on in my company right now?

Coach Fergie: All right, then I gotta hear, then- a kind of a, a story of what can maybe one of the toughest leadership conversations you might’ve had, to push something towards maybe what they’re avoiding. You know that you had to have it. Can you… Obviously, no names, but can you maybe give us an example of, like, how that conversation went?

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Sure. Can I start with a recent one? Please. And then I’ll go with the probably the biggest one. 

Coach Fergie: Please. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: The most recent one was this morning, and I’m talking to a partner 

Coach Fergie: in a law- Is it the man in the mirror? I’m kidding. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: No, you’re right. Yeah, no. Thank you for that, right? Yes. I do. Yes, that has happened [00:15:00] already.

Me too, brother. Yes. Yes, that has happened already this morning, right? Yes. 

Coach Fergie: No, sorry. Sorry, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Scott. I digress. So I’m in a conversation with a partner in a law firm, and he’s got two he’s got two aides. He’s got two paralegals that have left and two lawyers that have left his law firm. 

Coach Fergie: In a short term?

Like- In the last 60 days. Wow. Wow. Okay. This is getting juicy. Seriously. He’s six- he’s 61. Okay. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And the reason I’m on a call with him is because he’s in a bit of a panic because he’s trying to figure out how to retire and his entire staff is a- abandoning ship. And he’s asking me what’s wrong Well, so you can’t just go right at it’s probably you.

Let’s talk about that,” right? You can’t do that. And so as I begin to ask good questions, what I realize is He personally has had some issues with every one [00:16:00] of them, and when I ask him tell me about your conversations with them about it,” he gets really quiet. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And what it turns out to is he’s really tried to dance around it.

And to make a long story short, they left because they thought he didn’t like them and didn’t want them there. How do I know that? Because later I got to speak with one of the attorneys who’s probably gonna step into partnership, and she’s the one who brought the light to it that she has had to have all of the hard conversations, that he tags her to have all the hard conversations.

Coach Fergie: Gotcha. Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So all they th- they just felt like that they weren’t wanted and that he did not value them. And so his entire staff is exiting because of a lack of communication- … and a lack of just having some difficult conversations. 

Coach Fergie: Conversations. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So he now has to rebuild an entire team [00:17:00] because he couldn’t, would not allow himself, could not get out of his comfort zone enough to sit down- Yeah

sit across the table with somebody and say I value you, I appreciate you, but there are some things that I need to get clear with you.” 

Coach Fergie: Need to get clear with. I love that. Yeah. You hear that, squad? When you’re sitting down and say obviously you praise people in public, but you’re gonna, if you’re gonna have to have that conversation, make sure it’s in private.

But praise them, and then go in a- gently. I love how you’ve worded that. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: But he did value them. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: He, he- He did not show it … it’s just he had some things that he was frustrated with, and he would hold it in, and then they would sense that, and they misinterpreted it, and now they’re leaving. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. So they go hunting for a job.

Dr. Wayne Wilson: They all went hunting 

Coach Fergie: for jobs. Because, dude, yeah. 100%. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I see the writing on the wall, this guy doesn’t like me, I’m out. 

Coach Fergie: Yes. Yes. Yep. Yeah. It is the some of the attorneys that, or the paralegals that I might coach I work with them to be, like, an intrapreneur within the company to maybe go and have, start the [00:18:00] conversation with the boss.

It’s not their job- … but sometimes that, that could help as well. Yeah … I have that leadership, cor- talks that I have with companies- Yeah. Yeah … where I’ll say “Sometimes you gotta be the one, to step up.” Yeah. “And you might be valued, and it might make that light bulb go off over your CEO’s head.”

And when the CEO’s in the audience or in the room, that’s when they’re like, “Oh, crap, dude.” 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: That’s- … that’s an intimidating conversation. It’s hard for me. 

Coach Fergie: Bug groupers. Oh my gosh, yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I don’t, this is my client, I don’t wanna offend this person, right? But- … the, the, there, there are parts of what’s going on that maybe they’re not seeing.

The, you and I call them blind spots, right? It’s 

Coach Fergie: like- 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: just they will say to me, I can’t tell you the number of executives that said, they get in a coaching call, you say what’s important for us to talk about today?” He said help me see my blind spots.” That’s not really a lie. They don’t really want to see their blind spots.

Coach Fergie: Let’s shine that light bright on it. Yeah. Yeah. So- Yeah … when you talk about aligning performance with purpose, Doc, i- in your experience, what happens inside a leader when, they’re successful on [00:19:00] paper but internally they’re kinda disconnected from their purpose, right?

And give me an example of maybe, like, how that starts showing up in decisions they make and the way their teams perform. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I’m gonna go right at it here. Okay. So I’m gonna tell you, I’m gonna tell you, I’m gonna tell you my story, okay? 

Coach Fergie: Sure. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: This was me. The reason it’s important to me is because this was me.

And this did not have to happen, and part of my life mission is that it does not happen. It does not have to happen to you. If you’re a leader and you’re in your 30s and 40s and you’re driving hard, I’ve got a word for your 50-year-old self. What’s about to happen to you does not have to happen.

Coach Fergie: Yes. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And the reason it doesn’t have to happen is because I was suc- I was very successful. I had four counseling centers. I’d built them all from scratch. I was running them- Wow … for a h- a major hospital system here in the North Carolina area. I was running f- four outpatient counseling centers.

They were all non-profits. They [00:20:00] all had non-profit boards. They were all profitable. I had 12 to 13 clinical staff in four cities that I was supervising. We were impacting thousands of people’s lives and for mental health clinics making millions of dollars. It was a very successful clinic. 

Coach Fergie: Wow. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: But after 18 years of that, I lost the purpose.

It was about the number of hours per se- the number of sessions per month that my clinicians were driving, the number of clients we were seeing- Yep … the revenue we were doing. Where’s our ARs at? Where’s our accounts receivable at? Where’s our billing at? It was all about the nuts and the bolts, and it wore me out.

It’s not why I got into it. They were the things I had to track to run four businesses in four different cities. Your leaders know what this feels like. You know what this feels like. 

Coach Fergie: Yes, 100%. Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: What I lost track of is why are you doing [00:21:00] this? 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And when I got connected, when I got disconnected from, Simon Sinek’s why, when I got disconnected from the purpose, I got lost in the minutiae.

And then I got burnout and tired. And then I, what happened to me is what happens to all leaders, and my mentor Wayne Oates back in seminary told me this was gonna happen if I didn’t pay attention to it. And then I kinda self-destructed. I shut down. My performance failed. I, I, ’cause I was tired, I wasn’t making good decisions.

I wouldn’t take time off. I had it. I had it in the bank. I wouldn’t take the time off. I just kept driving myself, ’cause that’s what we do, and that’s what we’re expected to do, and it all fell apart. And at 50 I ended up leaving that organization and even leaving the industry.

Coach Fergie: Wow. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And it didn’t have to happen. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Because I’d lost my purpose. I’d [00:22:00] lost the balance of why I was doing what I was doing, the relevance of it. I failed to set boundaries because I wasn’t doing the self-reflection And it was all driven by the fact that I’d lost my purpose. 

Coach Fergie: Ooh. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And many leaders if I, if you ask, I bet you the number of leaders that you’ve asked what their vision for the company is, they’ll give you their revenue goal, right?

Coach Fergie: Yep. Yep, yep. Yep. They’re not allowed to with me. The mission statement and whatnot or whatever it is. And it’s, we have to- They’ll give 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: you, they’ll give you your, their annual or quarterly- Yeah … EBIDA goal, or they’ll- Yeah … give you their revenue goal. 

Coach Fergie: Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And you’re like, “No, that’s not your vision.”

It’s 

Coach Fergie: it, man. “

Dr. Wayne Wilson: That’s not your why. 

Coach Fergie: That’s…” Yeah people ask w- what’s my why. I give them two. My, my why is to be useful, period, to anybody that I can come across. And the other one is a why to take care of me, where, like, why would God give me anything if [00:23:00] I am not taking care of my home, my temple, my body- my family, my car even, whatnot. There’s the two kinda powerful whys that I have. One is to be useful and, am I living to the best? Am I serving? That’s good stuff. Am I pouring into others, right? That’s 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: good stuff. Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: So let’s go back then. Now you’ve seen, you… We’re pretty close to the same age here.

So let’s go back in that DeLorean with Marty McFly. Remember Time, or Back to the Future? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Of course I do. 

Coach Fergie: Let’s go back to the double deuce, the 22-year-old Wayne, which I’m… I doubt was Doctor yet, right? But- No … but to Wayne. Is, what knowledge nugget might you drop on him, not to change anything ’cause the learning and the trajectory that you have has got you to where you’re at, but to maybe shorten the learning curve a little bit?

What might you do to shorten the learning curve? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I would tell him, “You have nothing to prove.” 

Coach Fergie: Oh, dude, that is amazing. Yes, 100%. You take that out of anything. I’m blessed to have coached a Super [00:24:00] Bowl winner this past year with Seattle, and he happened to have a huge play in the game, and that- that’s the exact words I had said to him.

See- “There’s nothing to prove, man.” 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: You got nothing to prove. 

Coach Fergie: You have nothing to prove. Just go be free and do what you’re good at. Yeah. L- i’m like, who am I to tell him that, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: if my tw- if my 22-year-old had followed his passion, but also taking care of himself- 

Coach Fergie: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it- … he 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: would be, he would, I would be in a different place today.

Coach Fergie: A- and get in your asking gear. Asking the right people the right, the, the right questions- Yeah … at the right time. That’s why I tell people that, a lot of my clients are like, “Should I do affirmations?” I’m like, “Absolutely, do affirmations.” Yeah. I’m good with affirmations, but what if we turn the affirmation into a question?

Because question- our brains, as you well know are, we’ve evolved to be problem solvers. We’re the only living being on this earth that will not grow to their ultimate potential. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: It’s what consciousness is all about. 

Coach Fergie: And that, so what if we turn that into “I feel good, I feel great, I feel terrific,” and be, [00:25:00] “How is it that I feel good, I feel great, I feel terrific?”

And that kinda works in that subconscious mind, and even prayer, in a sense, to the, the reticular activating system starts kicking and starts- Yeah, but, but- … 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: it starts doing it … let’s, but let’s p- let’s pause it there, right? Because you and I grew up in, in religious traditions where prayer was not an affirmation.

Nope. Prayer was a description of the problem. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So when people pray, they describe the problem to God and ask God to fix it. 

Coach Fergie: Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: 90% of the time when you roll out of bed, what your look, what your subconscious mind is immediately doing is hunting for all the problems that need to be 

Coach Fergie: solved 100%.

Yep. Yep. 100%. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: So here’s what I’ve watched over 30 years. When you tell people to stand in the mirror and say, “I’m an amazing human being and I have lots to achieve today,” your subconscious says, “Bull-” 

Coach Fergie: Crap. 100%, dude. Yep. Yep 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And the reason affirmations don’t work is because people don’t b- they’re, you, [00:26:00] genuinely your subconscious does not believe you.

They will call you on it. It- 100%, yep … your subconscious will call you on it. What you’ve done powerfully is you’ve addressed the fallacy of the subconscious. The, the ego’s imagination has created an image of yourself- … and it’s not accurate. It’s based on false evidence. It’s based on interpretations.

So what happens is when you drive people to ask a question, they’re now chall- you’re now s- subtly challenging the subconscious belief. 

Coach Fergie: Yep. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Oh, absolutely. Do you really think you’re not worth that? Do you really think some- that you’re going to sabotage? D- do… And so you’re now asking it to question that.

And that’s a powerful way to get at the fact that that’s probably not true. Am I really incompetent? No, that’s probably- Nope … not true, right? I I’ve actually achieved quite a few things. Absolutely. Maybe I can d- … I can’t do this. Maybe you can. 

Coach Fergie: Maybe 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: you can. And so you, what you’re- Yeah

doing with a question is you’re getting at the root of it. The reason [00:27:00] affirmations don’t work is ’cause your subconscious calls you on it. 

Coach Fergie: It knows. It just knows. Yeah. It, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: it- You don’t believe that, right? That’s what your subconscious, you don’t really believe that. 

Coach Fergie: By the time we’re 12, we’re told no 135,000 times on average.

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Wow, 10 times more than you can d- than yes. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. So if you’re, i- if you’re told no, you’re already being programmed. And a lot of times you’re told no out of safety. Don’t go do that. Don’t do that. Of 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: course. 

Coach Fergie: Of course. So it’s protection. Yeah. But yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: So Doc- Yeah … how do you want your dash remembered then?

That little line in between your incarnation date and your expiration date, your life date and death date. Hopefully it’s way, way down the line, but how does Dr. Wayne D. Wilson want his dash remembered?

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I think you could replace the dash between the date I was born and the day that I died with the word impact. 

Coach Fergie: Oof. Love it. 100% true too. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: It, if- 

Coach Fergie: What I know with you 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: yes … if what defines my life between birth and death is the impact [00:28:00] I made, 

Coach Fergie: Yes … 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: i’m a happy camper. 

Coach Fergie: Love it. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Life well-lived. 

Coach Fergie: 100%. 100%.

Time to shine today, podcast varsity squad, we are back, and Dr. Wayne I’m in the Carolinas quite a bit, so now that I know you’re there, we’ll have to grab a coffee or, a, a lunch or something, and we’ll talk about some of- Oh, no, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I’ll b- I’ll buy you full dinner.

We can have- 

Coach Fergie: There we go, baby. I love it. I love it. The, we’ll talk about some of these questions probably just naturally- … and we’ll spend 15, 20 minutes on, to some of them. Yeah. But today you have five seconds with no explanations, and I promise you they can all be answered that way. You ready to level up?

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Ready. 

Coach Fergie: All right. What is the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Who you are is more important than what you do. 

Coach Fergie: Yes. Sure. What are your personal habits that contributes to your success? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Meditation and reflection 

Coach Fergie: Love it. And if you saw me, like maybe at an event or walk down the street, and you’re like, “Fergie looks like he’s in his doldrums,” like what book might you hand me other than the good book or even your book, with all due respect, we’ll get to in a second.

But what [00:29:00] book might you hand me to like get me out of the funk and level me up? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: The Magic of Thinking Big. 

Coach Fergie: Ooh Maxwell… no, not Maxwell Miles. Schwartz. Dr. Schwartz, is it? Yep. Yep. Yes. Love it. Great must read. Your most commonly used emoji when you text Your penny. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: The smiley face.

Coach Fergie: smiley face. Yeah. Love it. Chess, checkers, or Monopoly? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Chess. 

Coach Fergie: All right. What is your any hidden talent and/or superpower that you have that nobody knows about until now? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: No, people know it, just don’t put it into words. My superpower is an amazing capacity for empathy and active listening. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah, I can see it.

Absolutely. Headline for your life. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Dr. Wilson made a difference in millions of people’s lives. 

Coach Fergie: Love it. Love it. Go-to ice cream flavor. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Pralines and cream 

Coach Fergie: I dig that. I can go with that. There’s how about nicknames growing up? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: On nicknames growing up my mentor was a guy named Dick Rabel at Northwest Swim [00:30:00] Club.

They called me Wiener ’cause I was his little shadow. 

Coach Fergie: I love it, Wiener. I love it. So there’s a sandwich called the, the Dr. Wayne Wiener. Build that sandwich. What are we eating? What’s on the sandwich? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Oh, you’re eating a lot of protein. There you go, baby. You’re eating a lot of pr- 

Coach Fergie: I’ll 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: take that … you’re eating a lot of g- Italian cold cuts, and- All right

You’re putting some olive oil on it. Yo. 

And y- you’re eating the savory, and then we’ll season it. There you go. We’ll really put some seasoning 

Coach Fergie: on it, right? I can almost taste it the way you’re bringing it out, man. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: We gotta get you on set. And then we are gonna put that on- … some dense, old grain, stone ground- Ooh

wholewheat bread. 

Coach Fergie: Love it. Love it. Love the… I can just taste it the way you just said it. Like we gotta get you- Oh, nice … cooking, man. I love it. Favorite charity favorite charity or organization you like to give your time and/or money to? 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: I’m still attached to mental health. 

Coach Fergie: Thank you … 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: yeah, and so- Mental health is huge

so I, we’ve come a long way, but we have a long ways to go. Oh. And so I’m still supporting, just like the counseling centers that I ran for [00:31:00] years, I’m still supporting mental health. 

Coach Fergie: Thank you for doing that. And last question, you can elaborate on this one a little bit, but best decade of music. ’60s, ’70s, ’80s or ’90s?

Oh, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: it’s all about the ’70s, man. ‘

Coach Fergie: 70s, I love it, man. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Just it all died. The day the music died is the day 

Coach Fergie: of classic rock. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. That’s funny. You ever seen the breakdown of that song’s lyrics- Yeah … and what some of them mean? Like the Father, Son- Man … like the Big, Big Bopper, Ritchie Valen.

Like- Yeah … all that stuff. It was, like, Joe Namath is the, the jester on the sideline. It’s like all this stuff that they wrote about, Don McLean and that song it’s awesome. What a story. It is. Like, when I listen to- Oh … when I listen to build show notes for podcasts, I put on the ’70s, ’cause it takes me back- Ah, to listening to my… ‘Cause I was born in ’72. Yeah. So I was listening to my, my, my dad and mom, listening to what they were listening to, and it’s just oh, there’s so many stories in the music back 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: then. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. From Croce to the Eagles, you know- Yeah … everybody. It was just… It was beautiful.

So- 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah … 

Coach Fergie: let’s talk about a [00:32:00] book. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Okay. 

Coach Fergie: All right? Yeah. It is called The PIVOT Process: 5 Moves That Transform Pressure into Purpose, and it looks like it came out October last year in ’25. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. 

Coach Fergie: Okay. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the book. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Yeah. My clients would begin to notice that I would consistently use the same kinds of questions over and over again.

And- … and they began to ask me, “Is there anything that I can read or look at that will help me do this in between our coaching sessions?” And I would give them a number of different books, but they were pieces and fragments. And my coach said, “You need to capture your process- Ooh … for people.” So the PIVOT process is my process.

It, the, it’s an acronym, P-I-V-O-T. 

Coach Fergie: Yeah. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: It’s also the story I told you earlier. Yeah. My pivot- … my pivot at 50 is where Pivot Coaching and Consulting, the name, came from. 

Coach Fergie: Okay. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And so it’s my process that I used this morning to get clarity [00:33:00] on, on, or I used yesterday to get clarity on the week, right?

And so it describes this process. Pause in the present to perceive what’s really going on. P, internalize. This is what we’ve talked about this entire podcast. Sure. Do some internalization. Do some self-reflection. What’s going on inside of you? Then and only then create a vis- compelling vision of the future.

Coach Fergie: Ooh, I love this, man. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: We cr- we create a compelling vision of the future that drives you and others forward. Then, and only then, do we create an operational plan. 

Coach Fergie: Got it 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: We put a timetable on it, and we track the living daylights out of it, and you cannot fail. 

Coach Fergie: Love it. Love it. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: And we transform pressure, which is reactive and fear-based, into purpose, which is forward-based and comes from that vision.

That’s the pivot process in a nutshell. This book outlines it, tells the stories behind it, and will guide you [00:34:00] through it. You can do it on your own. If you need a coach, let me know. Absolutely. Coach Fergie will help you. I will help you. A coach will guide you through it. It’s a simple process, but it is it is guaranteed.

It will always lead you to the future that you want. 

Coach Fergie: I love that. And squad I am ashamed I haven’t read this book yet. I’m gonna get me a signed copy from the guy on your screen. But what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna do a two paperback giveaway and five Kindles giveaways. The first f- I guess that’d be seven people in e- whatever format you want, I’ll get it for you.

But the first seven people just put pivot, P-I-V-O-T. Let’s put it in. I don’t care if it’s Pinterest. I don’t care if you text it, 561-440-3830. Text it to me, to my team, and we’ll reach back out to you, get your address, and get it mailed out to you. And also I want to also recommend, Dr.

Wayne here for coaching as well. He doesn’t know it, but we had a pseudo-coaching conversation while we were talking, ’cause I like to pick the brains of my fellow [00:35:00] coaches, and picked up a few things, from him even before we hopped on live on the mic. So I re- respect, immensely respect, Dr.

Wayne here. And Doc, if you could do us one last solid and leave us with one last knowledge nugget that we could take with us, internalize, and take action on 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Slow down. Be intentional about creating a compelling- Oh my 

Coach Fergie: gosh, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: yes … and, a- and p- and meaningful future in your mind with clarity, and then create a plan and take action.

Coach Fergie: Oh my gosh, 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: and- we’re taking action blindly. Yes. We can’t take action blindly. 

Coach Fergie: Squad, I love that the action word right there was slow down. He didn’t say stop. Just like in Psalms, “I walk through the valley of shadow of death,” he didn’t say stop. God doesn’t tell you to stop. He just wants you to slow down, be intentional, and create compelling and meaning, and then take action.

The, the, the knowledge nuggets that I’m pulling here, that, he was, gotten into the cutthroat business. I guarantee if Dr. Wayne was to go back [00:36:00] and sell ads with what he knows now, he would crush it. Because he is a, an authentic, genuine, and transparent person that is not afraid to have the hard conversations.

He makes people feel cared about during those hard conversations. That’s what he will train you to do with your staff. He reminds us that everything really starts with pain, and p- the point of the pivot is owning the pain, and then also taking responsibility for it. And like I say, the, the responsibility is the ability to respond.

It’s r- right in the word. He reminds us that, Dr. Peter, or I’m sorry, Peter Drucker, you know, talked to us about culture eats strategy for breakfast, so build that culture. Leaders will ask yourself, ask themselves, how are they contributing to a problem, and how can they contribute to the solution?

He wants you, Dr. Wayne wants you to self-reflect while also setting your boundaries. The impact this guy is making that is on your screen or in your ears right now is amazing. He’s planting trees he’s never gonna sit in the shade of, and that’s the kind of people he li- He does [00:37:00] things for the intention, not the attention.

And he also, I can just see him in a coaching session, listening not only with his ears, but with his neck. I call it really leaning in and catching everything. So I wanna make an introduction to Dr. Wayne for you out there. I want him to g- I want you to be coached by him. So if you like this, which I know you do, reach out to me and I’ll put you in touch.

And Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for coming on. You level up your health, you level up your wealth. You’re a handsome devil. Ah. You’re Virgil Alfirevic squad here, letter here at Time To Shine today. Thank you so much- Yeah … for coming on, brother. I absolutely love your guts. 

Dr. Wayne Wilson: Thank you, Coach. Appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. 

Coach Fergie: You bet. Yeah. Chat soon.

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