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Speech Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:00  

Hey this is Angie Hooper with happy at law. And if you really want to learn how to level up your life, you should be listening to the time to shine today podcast with my friend Scott Ferguson. Time to shine today varsity squad Welcome to Episode 106. And today I get to bring on my really good friend Angie Hooper. She’s from happy at law. What she does is she works with attorneys that might be facing burnout, or just kind of have strayed from their core values. And she helps them get back and find and then level up their business. And it finds out that a lot of them go back to provide an even better service than they did before. She reminds us to celebrate along the way everything’s, especially if you’re getting to where you really want to go. One thing that she said that really resonated with me was happiness as a skill set. So you can learn to be happy but also misery As to so choose to be happy feed the happiness. So sit back relax break out your notebooks because here comes my friend, Angie Hooper from happy at law

Unknown Speaker  1:17  

Hey time to shine today varsity squad it is Scott Ferguson. And if you listen to any of my other podcasts before, the the one route I always wanted to take and just I hated school was becoming an attorney. I always have talked about it. Most of my friends that I hang out with in South Florida are all practicing attorneys and a lot of my friends even where I’m from in Detroit, Michigan, are practicing attorneys as well and they’re always like, Fergie, man. I can’t believe you never took the leap. I just like man, I can’t sit in class. I you know, I sat on a boat in the middle of the ocean for months at a time. And that was enough kind of really soul searching that I ever want to do. You never really wanted to become an attorney. But we have somebody that As an attorney, you’re going to go through a lot of grind, you’re going to go through a lot of moral thoughts that you don’t know which way to think. And as you get higher up in the corporate ladder, or the attorney ladder, you will need somebody like my good friend, Angie Hooper. And she has the company happy at law. So what she does is she will take kind of, I’m going to say it my way and then I’m going to let her talk about it. Basically, you know, burn out attorneys in a sense, and then level them up and find their passion again, she helps high achieving professionals reduce stress and burnout by discovering their value driven purpose, and applying it to their careers for 22 years. She represented International Energy mining and manufacturing companies as a corporate lawyer for complex commercial transactions, and hired and managed dozens of outside lawyers and law firms building millions of dollars in legal fees. Her mission is to demystify the legal industry, increase happiness and help you fall in love with Your life again. And Angie thank you so so much for coming on. I’d love you to come on and introduce yourself to the time to shine today squad but first, what emoji Do you use the most while you’re texting?

Unknown Speaker  3:12  

Oh good golly it’s the celebration emoji with the party hat

Unknown Speaker  3:16  

the party. Awesome. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  3:17  

yeah. Can you believe that? Because

Unknown Speaker  3:21  

Yeah, it is because if we don’t celebrate along the way, we actually won’t get to where we’re going. That’s right. That’s right. She’s already big goal. Yeah, you have the big goal, right? Like you keep your eyes on that. But along the way, you got to fuel the engine you’ve got to have that celebration to keep your motivation up and to know that you’re making progress even if it doesn’t look like that. Love

Unknown Speaker  3:44  

it. But what’s your favorite color?

Unknown Speaker  3:48  

Right now? I’m super digging purple.

Unknown Speaker  3:50  

Of course. My you better have said purple because all of your awesome. You’re seeing her on YouTube, folks. I mean, she’s a beautiful woman. She’s very, like well put together but if you look at any of her social media is purple so I was hoping you can say purple, Purple’s regal, purple is royal and perfectly. Oh,

Unknown Speaker  4:10  

thank you my friend. Purple is also speaking of regal purple is the color of our crown chakra. It’s sacredness, it is spirituality and if you think about it’s funny I have this painting one of my boyfriend’s pieces but it’s funny this painting behind me for the folks that are watching on YouTube with the blue because this was my favorite color for a long time. When I was really digging into finding my voice finding my my aligning my will with my purpose and my practice. And if you take that and you uplevel it that’s where the purple comes in.

Unknown Speaker  4:47  

Love it and folks in attorney that is built millions of dollars. Just said the words crown chakra. Anyways, listen, let’s get to the origins. Let’s get into the Nuts and Bolts where you kind of started, you know, maybe law school forward, and then the origins of happy law.

Unknown Speaker  5:06  

Yeah. Funny thing about my law school experience, I put it off for a year because my idea of the stereotype of a lawyer was a person who was like a hired gun like a mercenary, a person who didn’t have a moral compass. It was my prejudice, so to speak about lawyers, and I had to take a year to really think about first off did I believe that was true, and it’s not true. And that’s part of what happy laws about. Secondly, even if that were true for some lawyers, what was it about me as a lawyer that I was being called to bring to the profession? And so the time when I was in house, I would say a lot of that time for me was about teaching and mentoring and counseling and I would work with my commercial people and my goal was always number one. I’m going to understand what What you want, and then I’m going to ask you what you really want. And then we’re going to figure out what you really, really want. And then we’re going to write the contract. Because if you start with the document, yeah, you’re gonna, you’re gonna derail because and you can do that with counterparties. You can do that with loved ones. When you figure out what people really want, then you can have a really authentic conversation. Ask

Unknown Speaker  6:21  

them what they have. Also, like they have to know what they’re already have. Right? Right. Like that’s what a friend of mine says, you know, you have to ask them what they have. And then exactly what you just said, what you want, because you she’s a go giver, folks, you know, Angie is a go giver. Where’d you get your law school?

Unknown Speaker  6:38  

I went to Southern Methodist University down in Dallas. Yes, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  6:42  

Yeah, go for it. He’s one of my favorite running backs of all time. Eric Dickerson went there. So

Unknown Speaker  6:47  

yeah, well, I was there. The football team got this man.

Unknown Speaker  6:53  

That’s awesome. Awesome. So how did you kind of come into the happy at law wanting to really level up at Tony’s and kind of push them forward and other business leaders as well.

Unknown Speaker  7:03  

Yeah, yeah. I spent so many years feeling like I had the greatest adventure ever as a lawyer. I love practicing law, I feel like it is the most amazing way to impact the world. But I look around and I see lawyers struggle. And there is real suffering out there amongst high achieving highly educated, successful, wonderful people that just don’t have a framework to see law as a great adventure instead of a grind. And honestly, I think it comes partly from the way we’re trained as lawyers. And if you remember that old old movie where the professor says, I’m going to make you think like a lawyer. There is something to that, you know, law school trains us to think in a certain way, and to see the world in a certain way. But what law school doesn’t do is help us circle back around to align Spirit and our purpose with that thinking like a lawyer. So when I look around and I see, I had a general counsel at one job who’s just was passionate about the law, he was passionate about fun. I had a partner at a law firm when I was a baby baby lawyer who absolutely loved being a lawyer. And the difference between them and some of the folks I see now is they really brought it together, they had their sense of purpose. They were aligned with their spirit and their mind. And that’s how they practice law. I

Unknown Speaker  8:32  

love that. I love that so you can take people you I was looking for that word compass. When I earlier when I said you might run into kind of moral issues as being an attorney, because some people you know, they there’s a side of the law, just like in real estate, there’s a side of it, they can get it for lack of a better term, ugly a little bit and their moral compass kind of baffle real estate agents a different way with attorneys. So Are those the kind of attorneys that you’re kind of wanting to search out where they’re kind of stuck with that answer? compass, if you will, yes, folks, I just did air quotes, sorry, you’re listening, that moral compass, if you will, is are those that kind of maybe a perfect client if I was out networking? And yeah,

Unknown Speaker  9:10  

that would be a perfect client, because part of what we’re about is helping people make the connection between what they do as a lawyer and their purpose in the world. So I have one lawyer that I coach from time to time who is in a position to make real impact at the level she’s at in a corporation. But every other week, she wants to know should she be doing something, quote that matters? And I’m thinking you are in the place to move the needle. Right? And so I started to tell you the story earlier about my first in house job was at a big energy company that had a lot of contracts with a company called Enron if you guys if that rings a bell for anybody. You know, the the Movie smartest guys in the room, check it out our Yeah. And we, we had the experience of having a different business model where our contracts were built around physical assets. But being caught in the jet wash of a company that wasn’t being being upfront wasn’t doing the right thing, right. And so when you look at those two examples, there were lawyers that drafted those documents for me, Roger. So how did that happen? What is it about zealous advocacy for the client, as we say, as lawyers versus knowing who you are knowing your values, having the courage to stand up in the room and say, This is not okay. Or let’s do a different thing. And that was basically how I started my career. Okay. Yeah. And then in the year since then lawyers have a lot of ethical obligations that people kind of don’t realize, even just in terms of the Like if you happen to be a lawyer who works for a publicly traded company, and in the sort of post Enron world, you’re not allowed anymore to not blow the whistle, like me personally, as in the House Counsel would have an obligation to, to call the Securities and Exchange Commission or talk to a board member. Absolutely, though, to have the courage to recognize when that moment comes, if you know, heaven forbid, it comes for you. Knowing what you’re willing to do, to live your values. And having a plan for how that’s going to happen gives you a sense of comfort and courage that you can’t get by just reading the rules or winging it or absolutely your way through

Unknown Speaker  11:42  

when, when an attorney wants to level up, and they reach out to happy at law. What is your protocol to help them find their blind spot?

Unknown Speaker  11:56  

Yeah, so we’re doing two things right now. We We’ll do some one on one sessions, if they just want to work through really drilling down and identifying those core values. Once you know those core values that speak to your soul, and most people are looking for three to five really critical values. And then because we’re lawyers, we love a good definition, right? So if I say I have a core value of stewardship, that might mean something different to you than it does to me. So we actually define what that value means and how we put that in action. And so when you can make that leap, where you can take your core value and tie it to what you do every day at your desk, you change the whole experience of it. I love that.

Unknown Speaker  12:43  

Yeah, drilling into your core values. But what if you get an attorney which I want my attorneys to have big ego, I’m sorry, like if you’re like I have a pretty substantial real estate portfolio stuff and I have attorneys in place to make sure that that’s protected when they come to happy at Law, what do you do for them to where you’re not tearing down their ego, but still leveling them up? There’s got to be an art to that. Am I? My ask? Oh, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  13:09  

yeah,

Unknown Speaker  13:10  

you want to be still be a killer when they need to be. Right But

Unknown Speaker  13:15  

well and and i would say killer is is an interesting word to think about that because if you look at actual bar association rules, they’ll talk about zealous advocacy, that’s kind of the phrase that they use for the for the bar association rules. And as an attorney, you take on that obligation for zealous advocacy for your client. And what you need to know is where what how does that come into play? What does zealous advocacy look like? So for instance, for somebody with a big real estate portfolio is zealous advocacy, pushing through something that maybe shouldn’t you know, maybe looks a little weird doesn’t feel quite right in your tummy like your spidey senses zing and on it, making it happen. Some people feel like that’s zealous advocacy. Other people might say, circling back to the client and saying, here are the issues. Here’s the logical consequence. If we go down this road, let’s talk about who you are client, as a person, as a business. Let’s make sure what we’re doing aligns with your values to love that. I love it.

Unknown Speaker  14:19  

That’s fantastic, but still have that, for lack of a better word. Again, edge and setting killers still keep. But yeah, why it’s values first. And while they’re still you’re still driven down to their core values, to help them level up those as well. That’s fantastic. I love what you guys do over there.

Unknown Speaker  14:37  

It’s about it’s about starting, right. It’s about this alignment as well, right. So if you if you are not aligned with the activity you’re doing, it’s going to take you longer, it’s going to be harder. It’s going to not work the way you want it to work, when you’re aligned with your values and your soul and your head and you know, your experience and your logic, your knowledge. It’s all just going They go more smoothly. You indicate your clients differently. Because you know those things about yourself.

Unknown Speaker  15:06  

Love that energy. That’s fantastic. Love it, love it love that. So be aligned with your values within your head body soul, which is going to make not only you happy, but your clients are probably going to be a little bit happier as well. So that’s Oh,

Unknown Speaker  15:20  

yeah, yeah, they know they know when you’re full of baloney. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  15:27  

Yeah, yeah, shoot radar, excuse my language, but I do have that when I’m being told. So I’m just like, give it to me straight man. You know, I’m the type that they can but I have other people that worked for me that they have to do a little differently. And, you know, that’s one need to maybe some some of those attorneys too.

Unknown Speaker  15:40  

Well, and what you said earlier about people being worried, you know, that first of all, the imposter syndrome is massive, right? Like that’s, that’s just kind of a thing that’s entered the culture right now like imposter syndrome. But I think what it comes down to is when you are a high achiever and you are constantly searching grounded by high achievers. And you’ve been trained to compete. You can lose track of what you’ve accomplished so easily, which is the reason for the celebration emoji. Yeah, right. Like you just lose the thread. And you think, oh, man, I only made this much money last year, which is middle of the road for your peers, maybe. Right. And you don’t think oh my gosh, I made 10 times the average income for my county. Right. Right. So there’s your own. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that lets you actually be happy for other people.

Unknown Speaker  16:34  

Love it. Tell us about a fail.

Unknown Speaker  16:36  

Oh, I’m

Unknown Speaker  16:39  

juicy here. I want to hear it.

Unknown Speaker  16:40  

Yeah. Tell you. Yeah. Every time I have tried to be smart about my career, absolutely stepped in it. When I fall it like when I was like, turned my spidey sense loose and like, Oh, that looks interesting. So one thing that happened was about Bob’s baby lawyer in the law firm, and I don’t do litigation. My first job out of school was kind of an old school law firm, where they were like, oh, we’re gonna let you work on everything and figure out what you want to do, which was amazing for my career in my life. But it was completely confusing and, you know, chaotic at the time. So I had this partner who was like, hey, go, go, go, research what we need to do for this piece of litigation. And I went out and dug in and found all this great case law, you know, we’re going to get it was contract dispute. And I forgot to go to the basic like, oh, are we allowed to make this argument because we didn’t put it in the original petition? Yeah, so I tripped up on a procedural thing. And funny story about that guy at that law firm had a really passive aggressive way of giving back, you would return to your office one day in the middle of the summer and you would have a brown manila envelope with paper feedback forms in it. I hope they do this to me. This was you know, a couple decades ago. So hopefully they’re doing differently now. And that partner had written some really, like, personally insulting things fell on the floor. And then I ended up running into him at church every Sunday. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, he was on committees. I mean, you know, ran into him at church over and over and over again, past him in the hallway, after I’d left the firm. And one day, I was walking down the hallway, and I thought, there’s a reason this keeps happening. And so every time I saw him after that, I would say, I love you and I forgive you. And I’m so happy to be surrounded by teachers and mentors in my head,

Unknown Speaker  18:50  

right? Okay, got it.

Unknown Speaker  18:52  

Yeah. And within a few weeks, all of a sudden, I like I haven’t seen that guy in years. Right. But Until I addressed my core discomfort. He was gonna keep popping up, right? He probably would have moved in next door to me if I hadn’t done that, right.

Unknown Speaker  19:10  

There’s some more comfort for you. Right? Right, right. Let’s get let’s get in our DeLorean with Marty McFly. Let’s go back to 22 year old Angie. Yeah knowledge nuggets. Are you dropping on her with the experience that you have no upper shortener learning curve level level up?

Unknown Speaker  19:28  

Yeah. Number one. When your intuition speaks, listen, well, and then do it. Wow. A nice core core. learned it the hard way. Learn from my pain.

Unknown Speaker  19:39  

I hear ya. I hear it. Yeah, sometimes you overanalyze stuff and same thing in the real estate business as well. Yeah. Love that. So when you’re starting to bring in people to happy at law is its clients. Are there any good questions that you wish they would ask you but never do.

Unknown Speaker  19:59  

I wish They would ask me

Unknown Speaker  20:03  

what’s possible, right to come with the mindset of like, there’s so many people who just think suffering is inevitable, you know, oh, well that’s just life. I would really love for them to come in and say, How can I have a mind full of possibility? Isn’t that isn’t it a game changing way to start anything? Sure.

Unknown Speaker  20:27  

Yeah. And you know, even try you know, Tony Robbins will say, you know, pain is life. Suffering is a choice, which really trying to change my life with a lot of my backstory and moving forward and not having to really suffered as much so, Angie, we’ve talked a lot about the dash here. It’s time to shine today. You know, that little line in between your life date and death date? How do you want yours to be remembered? Maybe your legacy statement? How do you want that dash remembered?

Unknown Speaker  20:57  

I would like people to remember That

Unknown Speaker  21:03  

love always came first.

Unknown Speaker  21:06  

With the clients love came first and that’s not a thing you’re gonna hear lawyers talk about,

Unknown Speaker  21:10  

oh, that’s amazing that you said you’re still like I know you were use the word, you know I use the word killer, but you will see that you are zess fully advocating for your clients, but that you’re doing it now from a place of service in love or you maybe you always did and that’s what you really want other people to do and that that’s just fantastic. So what is the big big thing that Angie wants to to

Unknown Speaker  21:39  

accomplish?

Unknown Speaker  21:41  

Well, that’s like a big goal, right? Like I want to move the needle on lawyer happiness in the profession like I I’m kind of out to save the profession actually. There was a 2016 study done by the American Bar Association and the Betty Ford institute that showed just heartbreaking levels of stress, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, burnout. And that is no way to live. You know, everybody’s probably heard that quote from Shakespeare, the first thing we need to do is kill all the lawyers. Right? But I don’t think people realize that’s a misquote. It’s taken out of context, right? The character who says that is the person who’s trying to become the tyrant. It’s like if you want to bring down the downfall of this democratic republic, this city kill lawyers, but the thing is, we’re kind of doing that now. We’ve got them so stressed out and burned out and in a sense, despairing that law isn’t what they thought it was going to be. Right. So if we can bring that dream back to life, you know, what was it that you wanted to accomplish and all it Listen, making money as a lawyer is great fun. That is it Totally fine to live your divine purpose and have a nice house and a nice car. Absolutely. There, you know, so a lot of the lawyers I talked to think, Oh, well, I just, you know, add to corporate America. I don’t you know, I’m not out saving, you know, immigration law helping kids at the border not doing what whatever their passion is. But the thing is, I used to have a client avatar in my head, not a not a, like a business guy, client avatar. But sometimes I’d be sitting in my office and we’d be working on something and it was like a indemnity provision in a contract or whatever. It’s something that you might be inclined to think was a little dry. Right. And I would think about a little old lady who has her teacher retirement, or her firefighter retirement, or her pension invested in a big pension fund that invested in our company stock How could I make sure that our filings were good? Our risk profile was good. How could I make sure that we were gonna do right by her so that she had food on her table? And he winner got it. I love that big thing that’s got a name for her and everything.

Unknown Speaker  24:16  

So what’s your definition of a life well lived

Unknown Speaker  24:24  

to always have taken the most out of the opportunity when you could find it. So it’s, yeah, it’s to do your best. But people say that sometimes with a flavor of excuse, like, well, I did my best. As opposed to, I’m doing my best. Like, this is the best I’ve got. And there’s gonna be a day once in a while where the best you’ve got is terrified. Should we be stressed out, and there are going to be some days when the best you’ve got is Miracle on two feet so that

Unknown Speaker  25:03  

love is true. And it’ll show up out of the blue to that. Yeah, so so what’s three things that Angie can’t live without?

Unknown Speaker  25:12  

A

Unknown Speaker  25:13  

espresso espresso machine. Um, my loved ones and I’m including the Great Dane puppies and in my family and, and my divine purpose, my calling God calling to help these lawyers

Unknown Speaker  25:28  

love that it’s so beautiful to hear. So as we kind of wind things down just a little bit here, and you got to go into our level up lightning round. I know. Ernie, you love to talk. I’m just kidding. No, I’m not five seconds. Okay, answer these. You can answer them all within five seconds. No explanations. Just the answers. We ready? Yeah. Awesome, Mitch. What’s the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received?

Unknown Speaker  25:56  

walk in the room like you’ve got the right to be there.

Unknown Speaker  25:58  

Oh my gosh. My I digress there, walk in the room like you got the right to be there. Love it. share one of your personal habits that contributes to your success.

Unknown Speaker  26:08  

A coffee in the morning on the back porch. Listen to the wind blow. That’s awesome.

Unknown Speaker  26:15  

kind of really. Okay, well we’ll leave it there. Okay. recommend a book, not the one you’re reading now not the flavor of the month. What’s that one book like? Mine’s Andy Andrews, the travelers gift or Bob Berg, the go giver? What’s the one book?

Unknown Speaker  26:30  

Oh, okay. Sacred contracts by Carolyn mace, NY ss,

Unknown Speaker  26:36  

gotcha. m y ss,

Unknown Speaker  26:39  

m y SS.

Unknown Speaker  26:40  

Okay. I’m gonna put that in the show notes. Oops.

Unknown Speaker  26:42  

And it’s it’s not a law book, I should say.

Unknown Speaker  26:45  

A few reads it. We’re going to put it out there. So if you could be one age for the rest of your life and don’t say now, if you can be one age physically for the rest of your life, and still continue to gain knowledge wisdom, what would it be? 42 Ready to Love it. Love it love it. I’m a little bit younger, I would say mine would be like 32 you know, it’s like, gotta hit the 40s I’m almost 50 but once I hit the 40s it was like, you know, whoa, yeah, but

Unknown Speaker  27:14  

I was 35 Yeah, I was 35 when I had my daughter, okay, the wisdom that came out of that, and then you know,

Unknown Speaker  27:20  

yeah, love it. So what’s your favorite organization or charity like to give your time or money to

Unknown Speaker  27:28  

make a wish I was on the board of make wish Oklahoma for six years and Love it. Love it.

Unknown Speaker  27:34  

Beautiful. It’s great, great, great community to be a part of I’ve actually helped out as well with Make a wish. Fantastic. So last questions kind of hard. But it’s the best decade of music 6070s 80s or 90s

Unknown Speaker  27:48  

o m 80s rock but 90s alternative like yeah,

Unknown Speaker  28:00  

So how can we find you?

Unknown Speaker  28:03  

Angie Hooper comm if you want to book a call to find out more about getting some support for your happiness as a lawyer and we are rolling out an online course that is opening for enrollment this week so very excited to help more people that way. So Angie Hooper calm you can book a call there.

Unknown Speaker  28:23  

Love it. And you have like a group coaches. I will we’re kind of talking about right now.

Unknown Speaker  28:27  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re rolling out a group coaching program, you’ll get some support, but we’re gonna work through those five shifts that you’re going to need to clarify your values to define your purpose to build that framework, so that you can be the person you want to be and the successful lawyer that you want to be bring it back into alignment. So that is going to be happy at law. And for more information about that you can search for the happy at law, Facebook group on Facebook and request to be a member there and we’ll we’ll get more into

Unknown Speaker  29:00  

And I’ll have that in the show notes as well folks so just kind of scroll down from where you’re at and we’ll be able to get there so leave us with one last Knowledge Nugget. Do you want the time to shine today varsity squad to take with them internalize and put into action?

Unknown Speaker  29:17  

Yeah, happiness is a skill set that you can learn. Misery is also a skill set you can learn and that’s probably the one you’ve been training but yeah, happiness is a skill set that you can learn I love that

Unknown Speaker  29:29  

Love it. Love it. Wow. Folks squad you’ve just had like really a full if you look in here, I got just notes coming out of everywhere with my good friend Angie Hooper here from happy at law. You know, she reminds us that law should be an adventure and not so much a grind, you know in to drill down really drill down and find your core values. And she said there’s three to five of them and I’m not going to reshare them here. What I want you to do is look in the show notes and reach out to Angie herself and go Angie Hooper calm and she’ll be happy to take that call with you. You know, listen to your intuition if your guts telling you to do something and it’s your moral compass right? Then go after it and do it. If you’re starting to work with a coach like Angie or any coach, if you have one out there, which I strongly recommend, no matter where you’re at in life to get a coach, ask them what is possible for me. And she’s a person that says, you know, love always comes first she wants to move the needle of happiness within the attorney world. And she reminds us that happiness is a skill set that you can learn but she also reminded us that happy or so his misery is a skill set you can learn so make sure you feed that happiness. And lastly, what she blew me away with his walk into the room, like you have the right to be there. And that’s something that a lot of people struggle with and I’ve struggled with as well. But if you’re struggling with anything, and especially if you’re an attorney, please reach out to Angie or reach out to me I’d be happy to give you a personal introduction. Angie is So humble yet hungry, she levels up her health levels up her wealth. I thank you so, so much for coming on Angie and we look forward to having you on again very soon.

Unknown Speaker  31:09  

I love that. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  31:11  

Hey, thanks so much for listening to this episode of time to shine today podcast, proudly brought to you by southern New Jersey real estate real estate excellence who can be reached at 561-249-7266 and online at www dot Sutter in nugent.com. If you’re a business owner or professional who would like to be interviewed on time to shine today, please visit time to shine today.com slash guest. If you liked this episode, please subscribe on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast. There’s a link in the show notes to our website. Also there you will see our recommended resources. We hope that you will support our show by supporting them. If you like what you’ve been listening to, it’d be great if you could just give us a five star rating and tell your friends how to subscribe while you’re at it. I’m your host Scott Ferguson. And then until next time, let’s level up. It’s our time to shine.

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