Like break out your notebooks because she leaves some serious, serious knowledge [00:01:00] nuggets with us that we can take with us, not only implement at work, but with your personal life as well. So without further ado, here’s my really, really good friend Von Lie, Deon from Work Smart Advantage. Let’s level up, It’s Time to Shine today. Podcast Varsity Squad. This is Scott Ferguson and my good friend, the crazy John Mayo introduced me to the, I don’t know if she’s even crazier or no, she’s just absolutely fantastic. We are like super fast friends. I’m, she’s my business crush. I absolutely adore her, and her name is Van La.

Dumone and founder of Work Smart Advantage, she is a dynamic force redefining how teams harness creativity and curiosity in the workplace through her groundbreaking creative integration method. And that’s trademarked by the way. With 20 plus years of experience spanning startups to industry giants like Google and LinkedIn, she designs transformative learning experiences that drive innovation from the inside out.

A TEDx speaker, an author of What If Pigs [00:02:00] Can Fly? Van draws deep inspiration from her mother of Vietnam. I’m sorry, Viet Vietnamese refugee, which we are gonna get into the, she told me it’s the 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, so it’s gonna be an awesome story. So keep listening. And a Viet Vietnamese re refugee who became one of the first licensed Vietnamese manicurists in the us igniting an.

$8.3 billion. Industry Van’s work is sold is, is bold invitation to re reimagine what’s possible when curiosity leads the way. And Van and I, I believe our superpowers are curiosity. It’s like our discovery session we had was supposed to be 30 minutes, ended up being like an hour and 15 minutes and we were just asking questions off of each other.

And it’s just, she’s such a phenomenal. Woman and Van. Thank you Van, thank you so much for coming on. Please introduce yourself to the Time to Shine Today, podcast Varsity Squad. But first, what’s your favorite color and why?

Van Lai-Dumone: Oh, that’s it. My, my favorite color is blue. Not just a blue, like a deep dark ocean blue.

Deep.

L. Scott Ferguson: Love it. [00:03:00] Deep, dark ocean, but it fits you perfectly well. Thank you. So that, I wanna, I really wanna kind of dig into the 50th anniversary thing right now. Yeah. ’cause your mother is a very special person. I mean, she had you, I mean, that makes her Oh, thank you. Just amazed balls. So, but no, let’s, like, I’m gonna give you the floor here and I want to wanna kind of hear, I’m super curious about this.

Van Lai-Dumone: Yeah, so, so this is the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War, the fall of Saigon, which was April 29th and 30th, 1975. So it’s a big year for the Vietnamese American community. And it’s also a great year to reflect on the stories that happen, particularly on, on those two days because the falls had gone, came quickly.

It was, , it was a quick. Fall. Right? Like it was, it was, it happened very quickly. And the US military had only 30 hours to evacuate as many civilians and allies as they could. Mm-hmm. And they did a, a phenomenal job of what they could do. And my family story is, my dad was a lieutenant colonel in the South Vietnamese Air [00:04:00] Force and.

And he had gone to work that day and was told, this is the end, , you need to get your family out any way you can. So he came home, grabbed his family, which is my mom, my th my two brothers and my two brothers and sisters myself. So three kids, my grandfather who lived with us, and my aunt who was 14 at the time, who just happened to be spending the night at our house.

Oh. So we were on our way to the embassy, and if anything about the Falls, Saigon, that embassy was. Packed. Thousands of people showed up there and not all thousands could get out. So my parents are very religious, , because, because something happened that day. My dad’s car broke down. We couldn’t get out that way.

And we ended up getting out by two helicopters. There were airplanes that were still left on base. Wow. And then the US Navy got us off of a, this little island, we went to Guam Firsts. Our first home in the United States was camp panels of Marine Base, and then we were at hope Village up in Sacramento, and that’s where my mom met a Hollywood movie star named Tiffy Hedron, who was assigned this role at this camp to help the women find a career.

So she started typing in sewing [00:05:00] class, but as they were typing in sewing there, they were curious about tiff’s long red manicured nails, and that’s what led them down this path to becoming the first licensed Vietnamese manicures in the United States.

L. Scott Ferguson: Your mother?

Van Lai-Dumone: Yes. So Tippy started the, , tippy was walking around while they were typing and sewing, and they were just curious about her long red manicure nails.

And imagine being Tippy Hadron Hollywood movie star. You already started this typing and sewing program for these women. But instead of, , ignoring that curiosity, she paid attention to it. She paused. She paid attention to that curiosity and that led her to bring up her local manicures, Desi Butra, to teach these women how to do a basic manicure.

And then they walked down the beauty school and, and was like, , we don’t have money to pay tuition. We don’t have we, most of these women don’t speak English, but can you take them on as students? And the the school said, yes. Citrus High Beauty College said yes to that. Wow. And they became licensed Manicurists.

Our family was sponsored by a church in Santa Monica. Tippy came and drove my mom around [00:06:00] until she found her a job in a local nail salon. Wow. And that’s where it started.

L. Scott Ferguson: Wow. So, okay. So she got the, , tippy was kind of a launching point for her really, because she, I mean, everybody would love your mother.

I mean, absolutely. I mean, but like, so. You, she drove her around. She started as a manicurist. Did she kind of parlay that into opening her own shops or like what, what did she kinda do after that?

Van Lai-Dumone: Yeah, so she, I mean, she continued to be a manicurist and she always like rented spots. So she was always her own business owner.

She never opened her own salon, but she always had she always. Spaces in salons as a, as a business owner. That’s awesome. The story is really the refugees and immigrants who came after us. Mm. Right. They learned about the profession of my mom, my mom and her friends. And they followed their own curiosities, asked what if, took small steps, and they’re the ones that opened their own beauty salons their own beauty schools manufactured the supplies that were needed.

One of them was my mom’s best friend from high school, right? She came over here, went to [00:07:00] visit my mom at her salon that she was working at Bo Joc Beauty Salon. And her and her husband decided to go into the industry, which they did. And after they went into the industry and opened their own salon, they decided to open a beauty school.

And that beauty school still exists today. It’s called Advanced Beauty College in Orange County. Okay. And they have, now it’s run by my friend Tamin and his sister Linwood. Now they’re their brother, their sons, and son and daughter. And that beauty school has now trained over 50,000 manicures. Wow.

L. Scott Ferguson: And okay, so I gotta back up the truck.

Beep. Beep. So you guys left Saigon, okay? Mm-hmm. Like, you just like, oh, we left Saigon. Went to Guam. Like, how long did that take? From Saigon. You, I heard Guam and then I heard Pendleton. Like what was that whole, , duration of time?

Van Lai-Dumone: It was So getting out of Vietnam was quick, right? Okay. So we left Vietnam, like we had to get out there.

Everyone had to get out of there immediately. So we can you educate

L. Scott Ferguson: them why they had [00:08:00] to get out there. I understand the false Saigon, but what was happening?

Van Lai-Dumone: Sure. So it was a, it was, , a civil war basically the north against the south. Mm-hmm. The south was, would, the US came to help the South the North Communist.

The communist Party. Yeah. And the war had been going on for, for years. And this, , Saigon was the, the hub of the, of the, of the South. Sure. And. On the, , the end of, of the end of April, 1975 the Communist party started marching into Saigon, and that’s when people had to leave. And it really was like when you, I was only two years old, so I don’t remember the time, but when I saw the images from the Afghan evacuation.

It was that. Right, right. Just a mad rush to get out of there. Any way you can. You could, there’s just some heroic stories, some tragic stories, some courageous stories from that time. Wow. We were fortunate that we got out, like we got out as a, as a family, as

L. Scott Ferguson: a unit. Full union. Yeah.

Van Lai-Dumone: A full unit two planes were left on the Air Force base.

There was one runway that was not bombed [00:09:00] yet, so we were able to get off there, get out of there, land on a island right off of Con Kan Island, right off of Vietnam. Okay. And that’s where the US Navy came and, and, and got us, brought us to Guam, which was probably a couple days maybe.

L. Scott Ferguson: Sure.

Van Lai-Dumone: Stayed there for.

Not very long week or so, and then we were transferred to Camp Pendleton Marine Base. Okay. Where again, that was the first time in US history that that that military bases house refugees. Wow. So they had to figure that out themselves too. Right. Wow. I think it was, I think four bases had to figure out how to house a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees.

L. Scott Ferguson: Wow.

Van Lai-Dumone: So there’s just a lot of powerful stories about him. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you for

L. Scott Ferguson: hours about this. Oh, just

Van Lai-Dumone: about that, right? Yeah.

L. Scott Ferguson: It, it, it’s in, it’s amazing. See, and it’s nice that it’s coming from a Vietnamese person, what I’m saying? Because you hear stories from other people and you actually lived, albeit by the way you kinda shared your age there.

Love you, love ya. Yes. Because man, we look good. [00:10:00] Age, I’m 53. We look good. I’ll give us that. Right. Kidding, but no, like that you can, you actually kind of experienced it and it’s coming from you, so thank you so much for sharing that. That means a lot to us. Yes. The squad, and I’m sure I’m gonna get a lot of feedback just for you sharing.

That’s why I kind of wanted to back it up and hear that. Yeah. That, that timeline, so Yeah. But, but from the timeline of actually getting out of, , Saigon and making it to Sac Town like Sacramento. Mm-hmm. How long, how much time do you think that that was, I know you were young, but three, four months.

Four months. Wow. Three, four months. Yeah. That’s so fast, man.

Van Lai-Dumone: It was very fast. Absolutely. That’s great.

L. Scott Ferguson: Good congrat. Wow. That’s that’s amazing. So like, so you grew up driven, ’cause you had your, your, your mom, I mean, just by osmosis, if that’s even kind of a word. Like you, you saw that the work ethic and you saw that.

Mm-hmm. Did that really kind of play into how you get. To now very highly sought after person.

Van Lai-Dumone: 100% in, in good ways and bad ways. Right. Growing up as a refugee, you learn [00:11:00] very early on that, or as a refugee or an immigrant, like, like hard work, right. You get to places through hard work. Right. So I learned that work ethic, which I’m so happy.

I I’ve, I’ve learned that work ethic. Mm-hmm. But we also learn. Like things about that, that aren’t so beneficial. Like, , when do I ever rest? So I’ve had to teach myself that to take time for myself, rest. My parents didn’t bring me to this country to, , to have a hard life. Right, right.

Yeah. They taught me, they, they inadvertently taught me to work hard and in, well, they, they, they taught me how to work hard in their actions. Mm-hmm. But in that they also inadvertently taught me that, , . Things that they probably don’t wanna teach. Like, oh, money’s hard to come by. You have to work hard for money.

, If it doesn’t work, work harder. If that doesn’t work, even work harder. Right. And I realize now, , as an adult, like, oh, there’s another way to do it, Barbara. But I do definitely value that work ethic that they taught

L. Scott Ferguson: me. You and I, I mean, I was kind of smuggled out of the Philippines, , when I was [00:12:00] 14 months old.

Whole story’s been told on podcasts and on stage, blah, blah. But it’s like I was adopted by my dad, who’s my hero, absolutely love my pops. Mm-hmm. But like he worked on the line at General Motors building cars in Detroit, and that’s what he kind of felt the ceiling into. Everything was Right. Work hard.

Yeah. Pay your bills and just see what happens. And, and it was just, if I was. A curious kid and I was, I still get kinda looked at by my family, like, dude, what are you doing? Starting all these businesses and stuff, you know? Oh yeah. , My father is my biggest cheerleader now, Uhhuh at force. I think he was just having that crab in a bucket.

, I’m trying to climb out. He is trying to pull me back into safety. Right? Oh yeah, absolutely. , But now it’s like, , he, I think I have a little bit more trust. Right? Pops, love you out there, man. So let’s, let’s kind of get into your work ethic and working smarter and. Like, , really launching, , your business that you have right now?

Mm-hmm. That’s like a hundred percent sought after, because every time I talk to you or reach out to you on a text, like, I’m in Chicago, oh, I’m here, I’m there. So I know that you’re, you’re out there grinding, [00:13:00] but you’re doing it smartly.

Van Lai-Dumone: Yes. So, so going back to like, like the, the lessons from my parents.

So in their words and what they told me, just like your dad, right? I was always told like, do it this way. Work hard, follow this path, right, and then you’ll be successful. So that’s what they told me, but I really think it’s what they showed me on a daily basis that got me to where I am today. So. As Vietnamese restaurant, we didn’t have a lot of money, so I saw them following their curiosity, using their creativity every day to make things work for our family.

So almost subconsciously, that’s what I picked up. And interestingly enough, like my work is now in curiosity and creativity and bringing that into the workplace. So up until my late thirties, I followed the path that they set, right? I went to school, I got my MBA, I worked for many different corporations.

And it never felt right to me. I was always a creative kid. So it was really in what year was it? 2013. I had just had my son, he [00:14:00] was eight weeks old. My brother, who was a police officer at the time, got into a head-on collision, collision with a mo on a motorcycle with a tree. So that left him in a coma for two months.

And it was during that time where, where things really shifted for me and I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like I want my son. To see his mom doing something she loves and clearly with my brother, like life is short. So I left my business. I had had this idea, I left the work that my company I was working for at that time because for six years I had this idea for the business I’m running now.

But I didn’t make a move on it. It wasn’t until that time in my life where I’m like, okay, it’s, it’s like this is the time to do it. Mm-hmm. So I left my corporate work. And I started this business and at first I called iTivity events ’cause all I wanted to do was bring arts and crafts to people’s lives.

But , I went to corporation. I’m like, oh, can I come do an art and craft projects, arts and crafts project with your company on our Friday afternoon? And the answer was always no. Right, right. So I’m [00:15:00] like, okay, let’s revamp this thing. Revamped it be called Work Smart Advantage. And I took all that corporate and all my MBA stuff, all the corporate things I had done in the past and learning development, te team development , talent development and said, well, why don’t I combine this concept of creativity into leadership and team development?

And that’s really when my company started to grow.

L. Scott Ferguson: Okay. So one, how did your family look at you? It’s a two part question. Well, how did your family look at you when you decide, Hey, I’m gonna go do this and mm-hmm. Start work smart advance, and then also I, I need to hear about the pushback that you’re getting from companies when you start to put, come in.

It’s not the, it’s not the head. Okay. It’s usually that person that’s of couple rungs below the head that you’ve gotta really kind of turn on. But first, like, let, let, let’s kind of hear what your family thought about they, I’m gonna go out and do it this way.

Van Lai-Dumone: Yeah, that was interesting. Right?

L. Scott Ferguson: I think

Van Lai-Dumone: my mom still tells her friends, I’m a doctor, right?

It’s like,

L. Scott Ferguson: oh my God, [00:16:00] that

Van Lai-Dumone: is

L. Scott Ferguson: Oh, vi Vivi. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I say by I,

Van Lai-Dumone: because I took one biology class at uc, Santa Barbara. That is awesome. So say she doesn’t quite understand, oh my gosh. But at that time I was married. So it’s really, at that time you’re like, okay, I mean, Vietnamese culture, right? Like it’s not their problem anymore.

I’m not their problem anymore. Right? So even though they didn’t understand it, I don’t at, I mean, I was well into my thirties. 40. No, I was like in my 41 when I started this business. Sure. So, so by that point they’re like, okay, we’ve seen her do so many weird things. Let’s just, like, she’s not our

L. Scott Ferguson: problem anymore.

Literal roll. Let’s fly there. Let’s all sit back and eat the popcorn and watch this thing unfold. Right?

Van Lai-Dumone: That’s right. That’s right.

L. Scott Ferguson: You’re bubbly personality, , I mean, is so attracted to that in a business sense. , That’s where I would like definitely, , bring you in, , at least have, especially the leadership and the creativity.

So let’s go, let’s say you’re meeting with , CEO of a business, or you’re [00:17:00] an entrepreneur and you’re having that discovery session. How, what is your secret sauce, if you don’t mind sharing, kind of like to help ’em, like shine a light on that initial blind spot that you’re gonna start working your creativity, protocol in to help ’em level that up.

But what, what do you do to, to find that, , blind spot.

Van Lai-Dumone: So the first thing I, I mean, I kind of had to, how would I say? Sneak in. Sneak in the creativity, right? So my, I lead with, I do team and leadership development through what you mentioned earlier when you introduced me, creative integration. So all of our programming.

Is it? Our methodology is through creativity, and then the value of creativity is number one, we’re all innately creative, right? So when I teach and when we teach and learn through creative methodologies, we’re tapping into a capacity that every single person in the room has. And through creativity, what creativity and curiosity allow for.

What, yeah, what creativity and curiosity allow for is this idea of thinking differently, looking at things from different perspectives, right. So that you can [00:18:00] turn challenges into opportunities. Okay. And, and it’s, it keeps people engaged, right? Like we’ve all been to leadership development programs where you just sit there, you might have a workbook in front of you and you’re being talked to, and then maybe every now and then they’re like, turn to your partner and have a conversation and discuss this.

Right. That is not how I, I I cannot even imagine running, running a workshop like that. Right. One thing I talk, one thing I often tell people is like, I love my work. ’cause I do very little work. You as participants do most of the work. Sure. What that might look like is we might do a workshop around conflict management, re management and resolution.

Okay. And we may talk about con conflict and, and we, I may ask them like, okay, build build a model with Lego. On how you currently deal with conflict, and we talk about that. And then my, my might say Modify. Modify and see what happened. Do

L. Scott Ferguson: with it. Oh my gosh. Oh

Van Lai-Dumone: my. I can’t even imagine. And then I say modify your, your model to represent how you want to feel about how you deal with conflict.

Yeah. Right now we’ve created this [00:19:00] gap. We need to fill. And that’s where, that’s where we do some, some of the more more work on like the frameworks of, of leadership skill building.

L. Scott Ferguson: So you can actually see how they might, their creative, how they build the Lego. Right. And maybe like, because of your creative expertise and your curiosity, you can help them like have better creative method methodologies, kind of like.

By the actual thing that they built through their own creative, or again, I’m just trying to follow on it. Sorry.

Van Lai-Dumone: Yeah, so, so my methodologies are really designed to teach people how to uncover their own creativity. So Lego series play, just for example, is a methodology that I didn’t make up. There’s a methodology called Lego Series a hundred percent.

Yeah. I’m a certified facilitator and trainer Lego series play, and it’s a whole facilitation methodology that gets people to get out of their heads and think with their hands. Yeah. Because there’s there’s like psychological value in sharing from here. [00:20:00] Versus from here, right? You’re able to get people to share more, talk through things, more share ideas, collaborate.

Yeah. So that’s one method I use and really my work is in using all these different creative tools to get people to look at things from different perspectives. But what my ultimate goal is, is for them to now like, not just use those tools within the workshop Sure. But take them back with them and use in the workplace because the value of bringing into the workplace is now.

, This idea of creativity is you’re gonna get more voices at the table, or you’re gonna get more people to share ideas. And if you’re getting more people to share ideas, more voices at the table, that’s where, , you build trust, psychological safety in and, and develop innovation.

L. Scott Ferguson: Love it. Wow.

That, that, that is amazing. Was this kind of, because I do know about the whole Lego leadership kind of thing. I’ve Yeah, I’ve heard about it stuff. But okay, so you’re, you’re walking in and you’ve already been, had the discovery conversation with the, we’ll just say the [00:21:00] CEO or the business owner, right? Do you get pushback from that second in line because they’re like, oh man, I’m getting called out.

They, they don’t think I can lead. Oh my gosh. How do you handle that person?

Van Lai-Dumone: I don’t I don’t get a lot of, a lot of that. Okay. I don’t, I mean, I used to, right. I used to, not so much a specific, specific person, but more around this idea of creativity. Like I used to get laughed outta rooms. Right, right, right.

Like, what do you, what do you do? Like, why do we need creativity in the workplace? But I do feel like creativity has been. I, I can’t even call it resurgence, but I think the value of creativity is being seen in the workplace now. Okay. Right. And when we say creativity, I’m not talking about artistic creativity, we’re talking about creative thinking.

Can we think differently? Can we draw ideas together to make something new? Right. So I wouldn’t say I have a lot of resistance coming in. Sure. Where I sometimes see the resistance is when, when I’ve set up the room mm-hmm. And then people start walking in. Right. And you can see the people where they’re like, what’s the Play-Doh, [00:22:00] Lego markers, all this stuff doing on the table.

Right. You see some people who are extremely excited. Right. And then you, you see people who are like, what are we doing today?

L. Scott Ferguson: Right. Is this wasting my time? Oh my God. Exactly right. Exactly. So how do you keep those people excited?

Van Lai-Dumone: So first, the first thing I do is I start with like, here’s why we’re doing this through creativity.

Number one, as I said before, we’re all innately creative. Creative. So when we teach and learn through creativity, every single person in this room can be involved. Creativity allows us to see things from different perspectives. Get out of left brain analytical thinking and draw in that right brain. Right.

As adults, we’re so much in our left brain analytical thinking and I dare anyone to show me a study. Yeah. That says that. That learning through play and creativity stops when we’re 18. Right, right. There’s thousands of studies that say that kids learn and get so much value out of creativity and play.

L. Scott Ferguson: Sure. Yeah.

Van Lai-Dumone: And there’s no studies that say that stops at any time with Exactly,

L. Scott Ferguson: yeah.

Van Lai-Dumone: You just stop doing it.

L. Scott Ferguson: Right? Yeah. , And also be like, [00:23:00] with my coaching clients, a lot of times they’re stuck in that rear view mirror of the past, , a lot of times, and I’m, I have to remind ’em like nothing great is ever.

Everything great is came from the imagination. Everything, everything in your room right now, from the books to the, , the, the walls. Everything was in somebody’s creative mind before it ever became, so that’s amazing what you’re doing. So what kind of feedback are you kind of getting from the companies?

Like, as , the workshops progress and you’ve been doing this a while, like mm-hmm. How are they thinking? And like when you do, I mean, everybody needs to follow up, follow through and follow back. So when you follow back to ’em. Yeah. What kind of feedback are you getting?

Van Lai-Dumone: So it’s all, I mean, I it’s all great feedback.

Yeah. I want you to like toot your

L. Scott Ferguson: horn right here, ’cause I, yeah, I know what it is. Yeah.

Van Lai-Dumone: It brings me so much joy to hear, , like how, not, not just the feedback from the workshop, but then like afterwards like, oh, what, not only did I use that tool in the workplace and we got so many more ideas, but I brought it home too.

Yeah. And I use it with my family.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. That is, it’s

Van Lai-Dumone: just, it’s [00:24:00] just, I mean that is, and really like the, and the problem, I mean, I always say the challenge of my work is generally what people are doing is bringing me in for a workshop. Sure. Right. Can you come in and do a workshop? So of course I try to stuff as much.

Impact into that one workshop as possible, right? And lead them with tools that they can take back with them. So, , ideally in a perfect world, or maybe I’m manifesting it just through putting it out there on podcasts and into the world, yeah. Ideally, what I would like to find are companies that are like, we love this work.

We understand the value of creativity, we understand the. It that impacts company culture. Sure. It improves psychological safety, trust. It gives us better, a better way to come up with ideas. And we want you to come in and teach us from the top down so you truly are building a culture of everyone in your organization, understanding the value of creative thinking, and not only understanding the value of it, but knowing the tools of it so you can actually put it into action.

Love that.

L. Scott Ferguson: So if I’m at a networking event, I’m pressing flash meeting people, , [00:25:00] finding out my curiosity engine and whatnot, and I’m listening, what kind of things am I hearing from people to know that they’d be a great prospect or referral for you?

Van Lai-Dumone: So I, I work often with companies like midsize high growth companies who are like, we don’t have a learning development team inside.

We’re losing a lot of people. Retention’s an issue. So, , and because what I do is I, I, I come in, like I said before with leadership development, so I feel, I mean, I don’t just feel, but there’s statistically a state that most people lead their jobs not because of the job, but because of their leaders or mismanagement.

So our, so my work really is coming in and. , Implementing a leadership development program.

L. Scott Ferguson: Sure.

Van Lai-Dumone: But in that leadership development program, you’re getting all these tools of creative leadership, of creative problem solving.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. And they’re living in it is the right brain. That’s the creative, right?

That’s right. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Okay. Very cool. So Von had, Von, have you seen the movie Back to the Future?

Van Lai-Dumone: I have years [00:26:00] ago. Yes.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. So it’s actually like 40 years old, I think next week. Like April 19th. Is it? Oh my God. Or something like that. God, yeah. So let’s get in that DeLorean with Marty McFly, right?

Uhhuh. Let’s go back to the double deuce, the 22-year-old Van. Okay. Oh, what kind of knowledge nuggets would you drop on her? Not to change anything. ’cause your journey is pretty unique and pretty kick ass, right? Yeah. But what would you drop on her maybe to help her shorten her learning curve or blast through maybe just a little quicker.

Van Lai-Dumone: So it, so when I, I would look at my 22-year-old self, I’m like, , there was so much self-doubt. I had so much self-doubt at 22, and I had so many ideas at 22, I never moved forward with. So I would say to her, if you, if you’re, if it’s, if this idea, and this is what my book is about, right? If you have this, if your idea is tapping on the shoulder, just take a small step towards it.

Right. And believe in yourself.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. Yeah. Squad, like, we should just shared a, a nugget right there with like, if you’re having the self-doubt. And you’re like, oh, I just don’t know, like, , just like one, do it. Scared. Okay. Two, , remember inch [00:27:00] by inch inches, a CI by the yard is hard. And three, if you need help get your asking gear.

There’s people out there that you can ask that will be, that help you get there. Right? And how about, how about this Von like, how do you want. Your dash remembered that little line in between your incarnation date and your expiration date, your life date, and your death date, like

Van Lai-Dumone: mm-hmm.

L. Scott Ferguson: , Hopefully it’s years down the road.

’cause you and I got a lot of work to do together, but like, how do you want your dash remembered?

Van Lai-Dumone: So when you say that, I’m like like, it’s interesting because I get a lot of feedback about, like, I, I would say like maybe she helped. Like if you were talking about I like it, like she helped me. Yeah.

Whatever it might be. She helped me tap into my creativity. She helped me find a restaurant in LA when I was visiting, whatever that might be. It’s like she, she helped me.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. And, and like I think that your why is almost to be useful. What I’m saying? It’s like that’s my why. People ask me, Fergie, what’s your why to be useful.

I want to be able to help somebody, even if I can’t help ’em directly. Know somebody that can help them. [00:28:00] Absolutely. , I

Van Lai-Dumone: think we’re the same. We’re like even the first time we connected, we’re like, oh, I connected to this person. Yeah, we’re connected.

L. Scott Ferguson: I mean like Frank and like, I mean everybody, it’s like it freaking amazing what you are and your heart’s huge and it that it’s a beautiful thing.

So what do you think people might misunderstand the most about Fun?

Van Lai-Dumone: I understand. I mean, I guess in my work. Is this idea of creativity. Right. I think, I still think there’s a misconception that I, like, people are always like, oh we, we don’t need that. ’cause we either are already creative. I get that from a lot of creative agencies.

Or I’m not creative. Right. Like, oh, I can’t, we can’t do that ’cause we can’t draw

L. Scott Ferguson: stick figure. I can’t do anything. Exactly. Right. Yeah,

Van Lai-Dumone: exactly. So this idea like, I’m not trying to get you to be an artist. Mm-hmm. I’m trying to get you to think differently.

L. Scott Ferguson: Gotcha. Anything keep you up at night?

Van Lai-Dumone: My dogs.

L. Scott Ferguson: Okay.

Mine too.

Van Lai-Dumone: Like literally my dogs. I

L. Scott Ferguson: love it. I love it. How about, how about three things mm-hmm. That Van can’t live without? And you can’t say family ’cause I mean, those are all [00:29:00] given, right? Like, okay. What’s three things that Van can’t live without?

Van Lai-Dumone: Okay. So I’m going, I’m gonna say water, but not in the sense of like drinking water.

Right. But just like immersed in water. Oh shit. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah. I just love being in water. Sure. So my wa so water. Nature. I just, I, I enjoy being out in nature. I get a lot from just being out in nature. Right. And then. I wanna say reading, but

L. Scott Ferguson: yeah, books, man. That’s legit. Yeah. Yeah. I,

Van Lai-Dumone: I say that, but I’m like, but I don’t read that much.

But I think know, I guess like more like knowledge.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. It’s like, dude, I

Van Lai-Dumone: don’t read a lot anymore, but I love podcasts and just, right. I’m learning.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. And like I gotta throw chicken wings in there for me. I love chicken wings, chicken.

Van Lai-Dumone: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not against chicken wings either.

L. Scott Ferguson: So what is v’s d definition of a life where lived?

Van Lai-Dumone: A life well lived. Oh, , and, and I struggle with this too, it’s like if we could all just find a [00:30:00] way to be ourselves authentic, live the way we wanna live and define success for ourselves, I still struggle with that. Like I live in Los Angeles and success looks like a lot of physical material things here.

Absolutely. And, and so if I think success in me is. Finding and living in my authentic self. Yes. And defy and, and defining success for myself, which currently looks like maybe a farm with some mini animals.

L. Scott Ferguson: That’s cool. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing with, if I get asked, , what is my definition of success is like.

It’s living a life of options and not obligations. Right? Yeah. I knew we’re gonna have to always pay bills until we die. What? Whatever. Right? I mean, just a given. But to be able to travel and to do what we want and to be able to just open up free and lean into other people like that, to me. Is a life well lived right.

Just to mm-hmm. The experiences and keep banking experiences, you know? Yes. Can’t take anything with us, right. But I can have [00:31:00] experiences until the day I die.

Time to Shine today. Podcast Varsity Squad. We are back. And when we meet in the flesh, when we meet in person, I’m sure, we’ll, we actually probably have talked about a few of these questions. Okay. At length before, but today you’ve got five seconds with no explanations. Okay. And we can all answer. Okay.

First of all, before we, before

Van Lai-Dumone: we move forward, this, I’m just gonna tell you like I am. I get, this makes me so nervous. I went to Catholic school and this reminds me of like a spelling bee. Okay,

L. Scott Ferguson: good. Well good. Then the word is Supercalifragilistic. Xbi Watch. You could probably spell that one,

Van Lai-Dumone: right?

L. Scott Ferguson: That was easy, like, yeah.

Awesome. No, and one thing I have to mention before we get in the lightning round. Because I have a niece that she goes to a Montessori school, right? Mm-hmm. And like they open up that creative mind for, it’s almost kind of like a, a, a, a version of it. ’cause there’s parts of Montessori I don’t like, right?

Mm-hmm. But the the part where they’re creative. I love though what you’re doing, you’re opening up the minds on

Van Lai-Dumone: Yes. For adults. I think it’s so important. [00:32:00]

L. Scott Ferguson: Yes. Beautiful. Alright. That’s enough said about complimenting you. I’m kidding. You ready to level up? I like

Van Lai-Dumone: enough for complimenting.

L. Scott Ferguson: You ready to level up?

Let’s do it. Here we go. All right. Von, what is the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received?

Van Lai-Dumone: To just start and keep going.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yes. Share. What are your personal habits that contributes to your success?

Van Lai-Dumone: Waking up and doing morning exercise.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yes. So you see me, , walking down the street, you be like, yeah, Fergie’s in his doldrums.

Other than what if pigs can fly? What book might you hand me? That’s really kind of flipped the switch for you?

Van Lai-Dumone: One small step can change your life. The Kaizen Way by Dr. Robert

L. Scott Ferguson: Kaizen. Baby. Consistent improvement. Love it. Your most commonly used emoji when you text

Van Lai-Dumone: the huggy one.

L. Scott Ferguson: Huggy one. Awesome. The slow

Van Lai-Dumone: one.

This guy. Yeah.

L. Scott Ferguson: Right? Yep. Nicknames. Growing up

Van Lai-Dumone: nicknames. Oh, I don’t have nickname, but I grew up. From kindergarten to eighth grade going by my Catholic baptizing, which was Cecilia.

L. Scott Ferguson: Cecilia. I love it. [00:33:00] Beautiful. Do you have any hidden talent and or superpower that nobody knows about until now?

Van Lai-Dumone: I’m not gonna show you, but my fingers are double jointed.

Oh,

L. Scott Ferguson: nice. Yeah, we don’t wanna see that. Just checkers or monopoly. Oh,

Van Lai-Dumone: chess checkers. Monopoly.

L. Scott Ferguson: Lemme go with checkers. Check Me too. It’s like dumb it down for me. I got other things to do. Love it. Headline for your life.

Van Lai-Dumone: Headline for my life. Kind yet fierce.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yes. Buy into, buy into any superstitions. All of them for me too.

Sometimes I got a few. Yes. Love it. Go to ice cream flavor.

Van Lai-Dumone: I am. Oh, I’m gonna go on my childhood one Pistachio.

L. Scott Ferguson: Gotcha. There’s a sandwich called the, the Cecilia. Build that sandwich for me. Cecilia, what are we eating?

Van Lai-Dumone: Okay, we are okay. Rye bread like thick. Thick R bread. Okay. And okay, I’m gonna do a vegetarian one.

This, I’m not vegetarian, but I’ve, I’ve had this, so it’s, it’s cream cheese, sprouts, tomatoes, no [00:34:00] almonds. That actually sounds good.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. We’ll

Van Lai-Dumone: throw in some prosciutto for you.

L. Scott Ferguson: Okay. I’ll like it. I I love the almonds ’cause the crunch you got. Yes. I thank you for the prosciutto cream cheese. Yeah. You’re killing it.

That’s awesome. So, favorite charity and or organization you’d like to give your time and or money to?

Van Lai-Dumone: So that is the Honor Foundation. So The Honor Foundation is an organization nationwide. I volunteer as a volunteer faculty member in San Diego. Wow. They work with Special Force operators, Navy Seals, Marine Raiders, Marine Raiders.

Green Berets as they transition from military to civilian careers. They do a three month program, and I come in the last day before graduation and I teach creative problem solving to talk about, , your military service may inform what you do next, but doesn’t control what you do next. So let’s use Legos.

There’s these plate. At least use these creative thinking tools to think about what’s next for you.

L. Scott Ferguson: I love it. And then that, that anybody that, especially I’ve been there where I had to transition from service life to City, street, civilian life, it, it, I wish somebody was like you in that honor [00:35:00] foundation.

So thank you for giving your time and money to that. And last question, best decade of music. Sixties, seventies, eighties, or nineties. It’s clearly

Van Lai-Dumone: the eighties,

L. Scott Ferguson: right? Big hair. Don’t care. I love it. , If you really look at it, it’s like at everything. I mean, disco’s, phasing out, but you had like rap with Oh, run DMC, Beastie Boys.

Right? Pioneer. Yes.

Van Lai-Dumone: I was like, I Aha. Run DMC the Beasty Boys. Duran Duran of, yeah. We were invaded from all of it. Duran

L. Scott Ferguson: Duran U2 Culture Club. Men at work, it was like the best, ? And now Oh yeah. And

Van Lai-Dumone: then, and after school watching MTV videos. Yes.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yes, yes. Yeah. It, it, and you listen to songs now, especially Pit Bull, which I like Pit bull’s music, I’m not gonna lie.

Yeah. But if you listen to his songs, they have the hook from the eighties. Yeah. Right. True. Like, they do like right round, like, one of his songs says The ahas take on me. It’s the whole hook. The whole thing is, is that, and but no, the eighties is where it’s at. , Not just because of our age, but like people now, like, [00:36:00] I’m going to an eighties, eighties party still for one of my clients that is younger.

She’s in her thirties and she’s like, grabbing an eighties party. I’m like, dude, I got my concert jersey ready. Go. Oh yeah. You’re like, you’re like, I’m

Van Lai-Dumone: sad. I don’t, I don’t need to wear a costume. I’ve got

L. Scott Ferguson: that. Right. Right. So, v how can we find you love?

Van Lai-Dumone: So I am constantly on LinkedIn actually this month, , sharing the 50th anniversary, I’m starting to share some stories.

I have like a video. I’m doing this like video. I don’t even, what project, I guess again, curiosity tapped me on this shoulder. I’m like, let’s just do this. So I’m just sharing some stories from the follow Igon this month on LinkedIn. So find me on LinkedIn. My website’s work smart advantage.com and I’m always happy to get emails from people.

So VN at works, smarter advantage.com. You can reach me there as well.

L. Scott Ferguson: I love it. And squad. Here we go. We’re gonna do this. So this is the work smart advantage.com. That’s her like just rocking the room and people laugh and have a good time learning. Absolutely. Just kicking ass man. Look at that girl. She’s gorgeous.

Like look at those, those companies as well. If you’re watching Vimeo or or YouTube. She’s the [00:37:00] real deal and she’s got the proof. The proof is right here. But tell us a little bit also about your leadership canvas, that, that, that going on.

Van Lai-Dumone: So Leadership Canvas is our, IS Work Smart Advantage’s Signature Leadership Development Program where we go into organizations and we work with people to, , is all these different leadership.

Development topics, conflict management resolution mentoring, coaching teams, anything you can find for leadership development. But we add creativity to it. And what I found is that, , some companies can’t bring us in for an an one engagement or a year long engagement. Sure. So we developed this six week leadership canvas program, right, where you can send one or two people from your company as a live online cohort that lasts for six weeks.

That’s beautiful. And it really is a way to just get the, the, this content out to more people.

L. Scott Ferguson: Sure. I love that. And so squad I am going to do, for the first person that puts Cecilia Rocks, I’m gonna do a giveaway for we’ll talk off, off [00:38:00] mic also, but I would like to do the giveaway for one of these programs as well.

Squad to giveaway to you or your company or somebody within your company that needs to that you want to get creative to level up and, and. , , protect the bottom line, but also have a good time while doing it. So just reach out first person who put Cecilia in any of our social media.

, A time to shine today LinkedIn, Pinterest, whatnot. I would like to , sign you up for the program and, and Van, you, and I’ll talk off Mike about that as well. Sure. Absolutely. But also, how about the work smart shop?

Van Lai-Dumone: So I created this shop on on my website to, to sell some of the, the, the tools that I use in my workshops.

Number one is, of course, the book work. What a Pigs and Fly Practical Guide to Follow Your Curiosities to Achieve Impact possibilities. I also have a deck of so that’s my creativity kit, so some of the tools we use in the workshops and get with instructions on how to use. Yourself or your team.

This is my curiosity card deck as a deck of photos I’ve taken over the last 10 years per like, , just personally or [00:39:00] within my workshops. Sure. And what I use those for is in my workshops I may say, pull out a card and what aspects of this, this card, what images what characteristics of image represents how you might solve for a challenge.

So again, drawing in that creative side, rather than just seeing that, trying to come up with ideas off the top of your head,

L. Scott Ferguson: you have like a, a. A pick of stuff from all price ranges to everything that you can really use to level up the curiosity and, and get them their hu human potential, their best human potential.

So you also authored this book, what If Pigs Can Fly a Practical Guide to Follow Your Curiosities, to Achieve impractical Possibilities? So tell us a little bit about what’s included in the book.

Van Lai-Dumone: So the book is a framework on how to follow curiosity. And it took me four years to write this book because I was like, well, everyone knows how to follow curiosity.

Sure. But then I realized like not everyone is like you and I, Scott, where we get an idea and we run right. So this is a book that walks people through a very simple three part framework of pausing and paying attention to follow your, to, , to the ideas that tap you on the shoulder. Yeah. , Asking these [00:40:00] questions like, what if, how might I, because generally when there’s an idea that taps on the shoulder mm-hmm.

Again, I’m guilty of this, some idea might tap me on the shoulder and the first thing I say to myself is, I can’t do that. Who am I to? Right. Who are we? I’m too busy.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah,

Van Lai-Dumone: yeah, exactly. So the, so the book really guides you on how to, to. To switch that and reframe it to like, okay, well what if, how might I,

L. Scott Ferguson: right.

Van Lai-Dumone: And then what’s one small step I can take to, to start moving towards that possibility?

L. Scott Ferguson: Gotcha. And, and Scott, I am gonna do two book giveaway as well on Time to Shine today, today’s dime. And I’ll know you’ll listen this far, which a lot of you do. So thank you. Like I, I, I want you to put Pink Floyd in there.

The reason being is ’cause pigs fly. I went to the concert back in the eighties and there was a pig that flew. So I know that if you put Pink Floyd in there, I know you’ve listened to this or just text it also to 5 6 1 4 4 0 3 3 0, and I will personally send out a a book to you. And if, if what, I might even hold off until I meet Van and have her sign it directly to you, which I might just do that.

Van Lai-Dumone: I, I can sign and send [00:41:00] it out too. Beautiful.

L. Scott Ferguson: Absolutely. And von, do me one last solid and leave us with one last knowledge nugget we can take with us, internalize and take action on.

Van Lai-Dumone: So I, I’m going, I’m gonna leave with curiosity because I That’s so important. Yep. , My mom’s story is about curiosity.

They followed a curiosity. So the, the nugget I would leave, I say it in the book, curiosity is the most powerful thing we own. Yeah. So just thinking about like what is curiosity is currently tapping on the shoulder and how could you move forward with that? Yes. Because I think curiosities that come to us, come to each of us for a reason.

L. Scott Ferguson: Yeah. And that’s what I really want you to do, squad. ’cause again, everyone that. That knows me or I get introduced on stage or whatever my superpower is. Curiosity. And like Van mentioned, that, , sometimes you have to pause and, and hit it. It’s ready to smack you in the face and just you’re, we’re all moving so fast through life that.

We don’t pause and then really lean into that curiosity. I mean, if you look at a big [00:42:00] thank you to like at least her family tippy hydrant for what she did for Van’s mother, , and just realize that there’s a lot of what ifs that are out there. What if this, what if that in. Really taking action on those by taking small steps.

, Again, inch by inch, it’s a cinch right by the yard. It’s hard. And Von that’s how her curiosity is. Like you don’t just put a Lego thing together by smashing ’em all together. , Each block, by each block get creative. , The, her parents are the epitome of being a hero. They showed her how.

To work hard. And she parlayed that into a creativity to building her life and her business, which is just super impressive. ? Although there people that have work ethic. Dad, I love you, but you worked too hard, man. And like that’s where I thank you dad, for allowing me to have my curiosity to really launch, ?

And she reminds us that everybody in the room has the curiosity. And everybody has the ability to turn challenges into opportunities to help you level up. Just turn on the [00:43:00] curiosity, ? And if she reminds us that, if you have doubt, just start, keep moving forward. Become the most helpful person in the room.

I mean, my good friend Van, like she does things for. Intention, not the attention. You don’t see her on her Instagram and everything else, like leaning on Lambos and Ferraris and stuff. She’s actually in the room with them having fun. That’s her intention is to have fun, and that’s why it pays off in space for her.

She’s planting trees. She’s never gonna sit in the shade of. And that’s the kind of people I love to surround myself with. She levels up her health, she levels up her wealth. She’s earned a varsity la, , varsity squad letter here at Time to Shine today. She’s absolutely stunning. I’m so blessed to call her a friend and a colleague and thank you so much for coming on,

I absolutely love your guys.

Van Lai-Dumone: Thanks Fergie. This was really fun. Thank you so much. Yay.L. Scott Ferguson: Love ya. Bye.