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Time to shine. Today podcast varsity squad. This is Scott Ferguson and I have my really good friend north of the border, a little bit west north of the border. It’s a little bit colder where he is than where I am right now, but I have my really good friend Roy Osing. Roy is someone that I don’t really know yet, but I immensely respect. He’s a former president, Simon entrepreneur with over 40 years of successful and unmatched executive leadership experience in every aspect of business. As president of a major data and internet company, his leadership and audacious unheard of ways took the company from its early stage to 1 billion in annual sales. He is a blogger, which I checked out some of his blogs, which I’ll put those in the show notes. He’s a content marketer and a mentor to young professionals. As accomplished business advisor, he’s the author of a no nonsense book series, be Different or Be Dead. With the audacious unheard of Ways, I took a start up to a billion in sales. And also it’s the 7th book, so the student knows how to write. So without further ado, here’s my good friend Roy osing. Roy, please introduce yourself to the time to sign today podcast Varsity Squad. But first, what’s your favorite color and why? My favorite color? I got to give you two, right? It’s black and red because those are my colors. If you check me out, black and red that’s it. Be different or be dead. I love it. And it’s like Johnny Walker, man. Black and red. There you go. No, I’m a Johnny Walker blue dude. Me too. I’m going to have to reach over here and grab the bottle. I keep on for visitors. That’s great. When you get out there, come down to the warmth and maybe we can rock some stages together when you share a glass of blue. Let’s do that. Let’s do that. Love it. So Ron, let’s get to like you’re. Very accomplished. You worked with company and took them billion in sales. Can you give us kind of the roots and what got you there and then what was that shift or pivot or Shivet, wherever they’re calling it, this day and age to get to where you’re really helping people level up? Yeah. I started really young in a monopoly business in the telecom space and I figured out relatively quickly that since we were going to be heading into deregulation and heavy competition, that we needed to get rid of the stuff that we were doing before because it was simply not going to cut it anymore. And so I started on this be different journey, asking myself the question, what are the competencies that we need to take on? What are the things that we need to do differently? And I just went ahead and started doing it and I was at a very junior level in the organization. People noticed, I got attention. I achieved results. And that’s the important thing. It’s not about the attention. It’s what you do with the attention. And so I drove really good results and worked my way, I call it, around the organization and up being an entrepreneur basically for four decades until they basically asked me to take over and lead the data and Internet company, which at that time was in its early stages is I took it. And I get goosebumps when I think about this. Scott, we grew this. Puppy to a billion in sales. Didn’t know we were going to get there at the time. But by doing audaciousness and unheard of ways that are my language, we grew this, we lit fires in people. We grew this business and people loved it. And so, yeah, we ended up there. And that’s when I learned pain was a strategic concept that’s unpack that, yeah, pain. It was a very difficult journey. I mean, I was fighting an old culture, I had to change the culture, I had to change the people, I had to change the mindset. I had to hire new competencies in the business and basically fight the grinners on the inside that didn’t want me to do it. And so making progress day to day was a painful route to take. And I had to have a high obtained threshold and a great deal of resilience. And what I would say to entrepreneurs, that’s what you need. It ain’t even what’s in your head, it’s in your heart and soul in terms of what can drive you forward. And just day after day, just keep banging away at it, banging away at it. And in retrospect, I think that was a major reason why we were able to do what we did. I love it. You said pain and the pain. Now you look back, it’s almost kind of like multiple workouts, if you will, people that are running or lifting weights or whatnot the pain, but they have a finished product. But what about the journey and that pain did you enjoy the most? Well, I think it was like an endorphin, quite frankly, being able to light fires in people. I’m a leader, right? I’m a do it leader. And so my objective was to convince people that we needed to go in a certain direction and do it from an emotional point of view, not the intellect. The intellect doesn’t drive diddly squat. It’s what’s going on inside you that does in terms of your heart. And so I just went out, tried to light fires, and what really excited me, which got the endorphins going, is when I saw pupils dilate and the people in the organization, when they went, aha, I know, I know where we’re going, this is the right thing to do, it’s going to be fun. I believe in Roy, let’s go do this. And to see that happen, I got goosebumps right now, I cannot lie. I mean, that’s the stuff that kept me going and made the pain kind of like one of those collateral things that, oh, well, that was there. anyways, tomorrow I’m going to get more pleasure, right? It’s almost like the pain to me, even as I go through, if I have a tough coaching session or if I’m being coached tough coaching session, I almost appreciate it more in the end because I had to go through what I went through and companies and the growing pains as well, right? Absolutely. It makes it worthwhile in a rather ridiculous sense. Kind of like a sadistic. Achievement is to suffer through the pain. But there’s a huge learning piece in there. It’s nothing comes easy, okay? There’s no home runs here. If you want to be an entrepreneur, don’t expect a home run. If you happen to get one, get lucky, fine. But if you bet your bank on it, you’re going to go broke. Take it as it comes. You’re going to have to suffer through it. And that’s just the way it is. I love it. You say that because I coach my client, clients or other people that want something. Now, the instant gratification, inch by inch, it’s a cinch right by the yard. It’s hard, and that’s where we really take them. I love that you did that with the company. I’m sure there was some personalities there that were barriers that were like, dude, really? What are you doing? How did you handle that? These kind of people were there in numbers. debbie downer’s Day. Seriously, I did my best to convince them intellectually that what we were doing was right. But at the end of the day, I just did what I did in spite of the kind of barriers, because I knew, see, the other thing is, everything’s based on performance, right? So I earned the right to be rather obstinate and belligerent at times with the new stuff that I was doing because I was performing. Right. Our performance was unbelievable. We were on a growth curve, and I would say, okay, here’s what I’d like to do. I know it’s kind of crazy hiring people because they give me goosebumps, which I told hiring for goosebumps. But look at it. It’s one of the factors that helped me on this growth curve. How could you not support it? And so I had the girls to back me up. Look at you can’t sell people on ideas alone. You got to deliver results, okay? You have to deliver the results. I don’t care if it’s your CEO, if it’s your banker, whatever. If you can’t deliver value through results, you’re done. You’re toast. Figure it out. That’s where you have to go. And as long as you have that, then you earn the right to do practically anything you want. That’s awesome. It’s all really through service as well. That’s beautiful. So right now, you’re in more of a kind of a coaching, mentoring role, right? And who is the people that you really look and strive to work with now? Well, I get a lot of small to medium businesses. Once we’ve had a chance to talk about be different or be dead in my content, who really love my approach to developing strategic plans. I call them strategic game plans. I had to create one that was based on execution because the old school traditional planning methods didn’t work, and they still don’t work. They spent 80% of their time trying to figure out what the plan should be and 20% on execution. And I flip that around. I spent 80% on the plan getting the direction. I call it just about right. I’m an advocate of heading west. That’s a valuable and valid strategic. Then I spent 80% of my time on execution. What do we have to do in order to breathe life into this puppy? Wow. When I talk to people about that. They’re kind of intrigued. So I spend a lot of time advising and helping small to medium business, who are looking for a way to get on a growth curve, who are looking to change the playing field, who want to take their performance up a level. Just recently completed a planning session with a boat selling business in Toronto. And the interesting thing is we actually changed their business. Their business isn’t about selling boats. It’s about building boat dealers business. And that’s the value proposition. They may use boats right, in their sort of portfolio of products and services, but their end game is to help the dealers grow their business. Well, that’s a complete it’s not a pivot, by the way. I hate that word. It’s not a pivot. It’s a breakaway thought. pivot says you’re on a fulcrum. Well, my stuff isn’t. It ain’t about fulcrum. It’s about creating a new trajectory. Love it. And so people really like that, and I love doing it because we can do this. For those of you interested, we could do this in two days. My process is two days, scott done, over with. You hit the ground running on the third day with a plan that you can execute and see results right away with that trajectory towards what their vision is. Because a lot of people will say, goals, goals, goals. I’m more of a vision person. Because you have to have vision or goals under the vision. Right. But the vision can be maneuverable, right? Well, yeah, the way I would describe it is you need a strategy about notionally where you’re going, and then you develop tactics within that. You don’t want to go to tactics without that umbrella, vision, mission, or kind of strategic context, if you will. Otherwise, you never know whether you’re making progress at all. The key thing, though, is to not spend too much time on that let’s get it notionally right, the direction, year end game, and then let’s drill down on the execution piece, because that’s where the results happen, right? I spend a lot of time and by the way, the same approach I use in talking with young professionals about their careers, it’s exactly the same process. So I could take this shrink wrap it, apply it to businesses, any kind of business, not for profit, for profit, career planning, et cetera. Sure, I get some action on that. And I love doing it. I love that. I love that it can be versatile as well. So let me ask you something. Maybe if you’re a discovery phase before you take them on that two day deep dive and you’re just meeting with somebody, making sure the right fit, is there anything in your secret sauce, if you don’t mind sharing, that maybe help them find that blind spot in their business? Well, the first question I asked them is, why should I do business with you and not your competitor? That’s that’s a question about differentiation. Because one of the things that keeps me up at night. Is the mediocre way businesses generally create their differentiation strategy, which isn’t differentiation at all. And we can talk about that if you want. So my very first question is, what makes you special in a way that people care about? Like, I don’t care that you have red hair, okay? I don’t care about that at all. What I care about is what you choose to do differently than everybody else that satisfies the needs of others. That’s a whole genesis of be different, okay? And so I asked him that, and I get a guy get a young CEO for a start up, and I said, what makes you different? And he goes, Well, I’m not really sure. I said, okay, stop spending money. You need to take a step back. Let’s create a plan that basically breathes life into making you different. So this whole differentiation thing is huge for me. It’s the source of this different thing, and it’s a source of what I call the only statement. I had to create my own way to differentiate businesses. And it’s the only statement. We are the only ones who we’re not better. We’re not best. We’re not number one. We’re not bad. We’re the only ones who do it. And I do this with young professionals who have a personal loan statement with businesses who have an only statement. And I got to tell you, it’s amazing the results that happen. You got to get rid of the claptrap. Better and best. Those are narcissistic terms at best. And you need to move what I call finding your own spot. Be the only one that does what you do. And so that’s the nature of a conversation that I have with people when I first meet with them, and it tells me everything I need to know about their business or about them as an individual. So, good. So maybe if we’re still in that discovery period and you’re kind of talking, finding out the clap trap and whatnot that they’re kind of in, is there any good question that you wish they would ask you but never do? Well, yeah. I mean, I’d love for them to say, what do I need to do differently to win? I would love that because I would say, to me, at least I understand that intellectually, they’re thinking the right way. But generally speaking, I get questions like, well, who should I copy? I mean, who’s best in class out there? And that drives me crazy. I want to grab the person by the neck and start squeezing Scott, because look at you can’t innovate if you’re copying. You cannot say because it’s intellectually dishonest that you’re a creator when all you’re doing is benchmarking best in class. That’s the other thing that keeps me awake at night, is this incessant desire to copy others. And we’re taught that at school. I mean, it’s promulgated by quote the thank you for saying this man around the world. Thank you for saying this, because so many coaches out there like, I’m going to get online and I’m going to get business cards and all this stuff. I’m like, dude, once you just start conversations with people, they might need you. My bread and butter. I’m not afraid to share it. I tell every coach I meet with financial advisors once a week differently and take them to coffee or lunch. They’re working with people with money every day that have a lack mindset, and they’re my best referral source. But because I do that better than most people and I love conversation. I love speaking. It’s really helped me move up. But I didn’t come up with that. I didn’t innovate that. I was taught that by somebody else. You sound like a person that has that in their DNA, which you’re very fortunate because a lot of people don’t and they don’t know how to do it. But most people fundamentally and most businesses are what I call floggers. They flog products and services. They’re not there to figure out what you covet, what you lust for, what you crave, by the way, which is a source of premium pricing and no competition. If you can figure that out, play into the craving space. But it takes time. Sure. You’re doing it weekly. You got to have that mindset to want to understand what people crave and then figure out how you can play into that. Don’t take your kit bag of iron and go try and flog it because then you’re just like everybody else. Right. And the value that you create is like that much. Yes. It’s nothing. Got to get beyond that. Love it, man. So have you seen the movie Back to the future? Yeah. Okay. Let’s get that to laurie with marty mcfly. All right, let’s go back to the double deuce. The 22 year old Roy, what kind of knowledge nugget. You have an awesome journey, man. I don’t want you to change anything, but what kind of knowledge nuggets. But you drop on the 22 year old Roy to maybe help him, maybe shorten his learning curve or blast through maybe just a little bit quicker. Yeah. I would say put aside the textbooks I have in my basement that I had at university, okay. Because you know what? I’ve got as much from them as I can. What I need to do now is I need to learn what it takes to win and succeed in the real world. That isn’t theoretical. You cannot formularize a business. I know I’m going to have people saying to me, they always do, roy, you don’t understand. Yeah, I took a start up to a billion. I do understand. That’s the proof point. So I would say, Roy, put those textbooks aside for a while and spend more time with the front line people in the organization. Love it. Learning new skills, get on with it now. Forget the textbook mentality. Love it. And if you don’t know something, get your asking here. Right. Ask because you’re surrounded by people that are there. That’s beautiful, Roy. Thank you for saying that. I speak at high schools quite a bit. They asked me to come in. They’re like, fergie, you never went to college. Should I go to college? But I went right in the military, and I did five tours. Did my thing right? And I had my family built there. I’m like you’re in college. Make connections you can use down the road. Because these textbooks yeah, you might learn a lot there, but they’re not going to mean anything. It’s the connections you’ll make. So go to college if you can, but then in the real world, get your ass in your I love that. I love it. So, Roy, what do you think people misunderstand the most about you and misunderstand about what you what do you mean misunderstand the most about Roy? Well, they don’t understand understand the drive I have around this whole be different thing, because they’ve been taught that it’s not a nice concept. They’ve been taught that conformance and compliance is what you need to do to be nice in society. Yes. Okay. They’ve been taught that the be different narrative, the way I use it, is compromised for them. And part of the problem is they don’t understand it, because be different means so many things to so many people that has so many slivers of narrative. Right. It’s like I keep saying to people, it’s not about what you were born with. It’s not about where you came from. It’s not about how you look. It’s not about your sexual preferences. What it’s about is the choices you make now to do things differently in a way other people care about. So, in a way, it’s getting rid of the narcissistic cloak that everybody seems to have these days and be there to serve others in a different way. Okay. People aren’t getting that, Scott. They don’t get that. And in order for me to move my narrative forward, I’m working real hard through vehicles like this. And thank you for the opportunity absolutely. To try and educate people and convince them of what a wonderful end game this whole thing is. Can you imagine a world where people existed to do unique things in a way people care about? Can you imagine what that world is? Awesome. that’d be fantastic. I don’t want to pull it on. Rand wrote it about an atlas shrugged back in the 50s. Right. It’s like John gault wanted to provide the world with something that was great. You’re fantastic, man. So, Roy, have you made any tell me something you purchased in the last year under $100 that’s really leveled up your life? Yeah, interesting question. Yeah. I got into this Internet of things for my house, right. And really understand it. So I went out and bought some wifi enabled plugs and love it, dude. Me for my house. It’s yeah. For Christmas lights. I did it straight. And everything else we’ve. A place in whistler. So after this podcast, we’re heading up there to do some skiing. And so I have my plugs plug them in, plug lights into them, blah, blah, blah. I got them out. I got to switch everything, cell phone, everything. I can’t move without my iphone. 14 plus, right? So I bought that. It’s leveled me up in a couple of ways. First of all, I’ve learned something. I’ve learned a lot. In fact, you know what makes me happy about this? When I tell my kids, I say, kids, they’re 50, ish when I tell them about this, you know what their response is? Dad, wow, you’re really learning a lot about this stuff. I said I not only learn about it, I know more than you do about it. That’s the deal. You’d be a kick ass. It’s leveled up my currency, Scott. It’s leveled up my currency in my family. That’s what it’s done. Yes. And it’s added value, like you say to your life. Because it’s nice. Because once I figured out how those plugs work, it’s like Christmas lights come on at five. They shut off at eleven at night. Yeah. I can go on my iphone. I can change that. Yes. The other piece for me that’s triggered by this conversation is the word relevance. You know, when you get, when you get older, I’ve always had this, this drive to continue to be relevant irrespective of chronological impairment is what? I’m all getting old, right? So my chronological impairment needs to be addressed by continually looking for ways to be relevant to those around me that I care about. The be different notion feeds that, okay, I have four grandkids, right? I must remain relevant to them. They need to look at their papa with Norwegian background and say, that guy is on the edge. I love that he understands what TikTok is. He gets the social narrative in high school that they’re promulgating that’s relevance. And I need to be that person. I need to do that. Love it, man. I love that. That’s beautiful. Do we have to meet for that? Johnny Walker blue brother. What is roy’s definition of a life well lived? To basically have achieved what you set out to achieve in as many facets of your life as you can. To have added value to your family and guided them not through prescription, but through ideas. Beautiful and thinking along the way. And so at the end of the day, if I get a check on those boxes, I’m happy. That’s awesome. That’s beautiful. Can’t say anymore. And Squad, we are going to take my good friend Roy osing. Who are leveling up. Lightning round just as soon as we get back from thanking our sponsors and affiliates. Time to shine. Today podcast. varsity squad. We are back. And Roy, we are going to meet one day, I promise you that. I do have a West Coast speaking gigs coming up in the summer, so we’ll definitely try to hook up somehow, some way. We’ll talk in each one of these questions, maybe 1520 minutes each, but today you’ve 5 seconds with no explanations. The aisle can be answered that way. You ready to level up? Yeah. All right, young man, here we go. Roy, what is the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received? Try and be the only ones that you can do. I got that from the Grateful Dead, a rock band in the 1960s. Be the only one that does what you do good. Jerry. Jerry Garcia. Love them. Share. What are your personal habits that contributes to your success? dogget. Determination, obstinacy edginess and communications. I’m a good communicator. Beautiful. So you see me walking down the street or into a room or a networking event or something like fergie looks like he’s in his doldrums a little bit, other than be different or be Dead. What book might you hand me? I would hand you the book that talks about Lady gaga’s strengths and why she is so great at what she does. Because it’s all about taking care of people. It’s all about taking care of the fans. I mean, she was the first one that basically in the music industry. catered to the gay community, for heaven’s sakes. No, I love it. doggedly. Boom. So I would say, read that and you’ll get some great ideas, right? No, I’m breaking my own rule here. She was found by Jimmy ivy, and I have it on my calendar. I actually get to meet Jimmy in March. Nice. And you’ve got dude, he’s my guy. This is my thing. anyways, what’s your most commonly used emoji, if any? When you text? The angry one. I can see that. nicknames growing up. nicknames growing up. oas. oser. osing. Beautiful. chess, checkers or monopoly? monopoly. Go to ice cream flavor caramel. Awesome. There’s a sandwich called the oats. Build that sandwich for me. What’s on it? Well, it’s toast peanut butter and jam. Beautiful. Love it. Favorite charity and organization I could give your time or money to. Yeah. The cancer foundation. I was on the board for a number of years. And the BC Heart and Stroke Foundation. Both of those. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Last question. You can elaborate on this one, but what is the best decade of music? Sixty s. Seventy s. Eighty s or ninety s? The best. What decade of music? Oh, come on. I mean, it’s the 60s, dude. You can actually understand the words. That’s where the great tell stories, right? And by the way, people don’t realize this, and I hope they go and get this. Book. It’s called The Marketing Lessons from the Grateful Dead. They not only were iconic rock stars, but they were also incredible business people. And I urge your listeners, if you want to be an entrepreneur, go read the great, amazing business. The 60s was amazing. I am so nostalgic about the 60s music. And don’t forget, a lot of those dudes carried forward into the 90 and beyond with their talent. In fact, the Dead today is a thriving enterprise. For God’s sake. Yeah. You know what I was when I was in the military? You’re about ready to ship to fallujah. And in 1990, I’m 50 now. In 1990, we’re in Philadelphia, and buddy’s Mind is like, playing with these, like, little twirler things, right? Like three sticks. Hey, man, we’re going over the spectrum to see the Dead. Actually, we have an extra ticket. I’m like, who’s that? Right. Like a dummy. He’s like, Grateful Dead. So I actually got to see a Dead concert. Oh, my gosh. It’s awesome. I’m just glad I didn’t have to take a piss test the next day in the Navy, because I didn’t partake, but I could have probably popped on that test 100%. Roy, how can we find you, brother? Be different. Orbeded.com is my website. I blog on a regular basis. You can check out my pages for my books. Look at it. It’s intended to be a resource on a different or be dead content. And the other thing, my email is Roy Osing@gmail.com. And you know what? I’m happy to have a conversation with somebody about this sort of stuff, so please come and join me in the journey. That would be something that I would like to see happen. Absolutely. All of that will be in the show notes as well, Squad. But let’s get into this book a little bit. Roy be different or be dead. And maybe just kind of give us a little synopsis of what they can expect, because we are going to do a free book giveaway. Squad, where the first person that puts be different? I don’t care if you text me or if you LinkedIn pinterest, Instagram, whatever. First one that puts be different, I will make sure you get a signed copy, which I’ll purchase. And Roy, if you don’t mind, mailing it out with your Handcock on it. that’d be awesome, brother. I’ll be happy to send you some awesome. Let’s get into it a little bit. Talk to us about that. So my 7th book, Be Different or Be Dead, is called The Audacious Unheard of Ways. I took a start up to a billion in sales, and basically the idea behind the book was to express what I learned and what I did that was different than everybody else that I look at upon as major drivers to growth. And so it’s kind of like a reflection on my experiences and the results I achieved on my journey to grow the business to a billion in sales. So they’re called audacious because they’re bold, are painful, they’re courageous, they’re different, they’re unheard of because. People generally don’t do this today because the textbook says that you shouldn’t and it doesn’t recognize the ideas. There’s only one textbook that recognizes my ideas and that’s my own, right? And so, yeah, that’s it. And it’s written really plainly. You can pick it up and go to anywhere. It’s organized in sections. Like business, strategy, g, careers, marketing, sales. Oh, really? Like my background. I basically did everything in a business and I tried these unheard of ways in every aspect of the business. So you can kind of open it. If you got a marketing challenge, go to the marketing section and learn what I call is the essence of the new marketing juice that you need to take on. If you got a service issue, go and learn about goosebumps, right? If you got a business strategy, learn about heading west and planning on the run. And it’s a strategic game plan. If you got a career issue, go and learn how to develop a career plan that I basically think and figure out what the magic question is. So you can kind of pick and choose. It’s intended to be a practical how to book, right? And you can go to different recipes for whatnot or where you’re at. Beautiful. So do me one last salad and leave us with one last knowledge nugget we can take with us internalize and take action on. Yeah. Look, at the end of the day, in this world of heavy competition and a plethora of narratives out there and customers and people that are fickle and change their minds all the time, you need to figure out what makes you special. You need to be the only one who does what you do. I know I said it in the podcast earlier. It is the single most piece of advice I would give to anybody. Don’t be clouded by the claptrap of better and best. Figure out a way to be the only one that does what you do. That’s beautiful. And Roy, it’s been such a pleasure. And Squad, I have pages of notes and I know that you do as well. He was in the telecom space. He found out deregulation was going to change a lot of stuff. He couldn’t cut it, so he shifted and he took it in a different trajectory. He reminds us that what you do, the attention matters and someone like Roy does it for the intention, not the attention. He’s not up there saying, look at me, look at me. He’s going to help you get that attention towards your business. He brought up pain. It’s a strategic concept. Journeys can be difficult. Pain is going to be there. But if you push through and remember that’s part of your journey, make it even taste better at the end. A do it leader does things really an emotional point of view, not like an out of control emotion, but emotional point of view, not so much as an intellect. People hire Roy because of the goosebump that he gets. And he also will give you. Ideas don’t sell alone. You must deliver results. And that’s what he will do with you and your company. Developing a strategic game plan to help that level up. He wants to remind us that, you know, 20% should be planning, 80% should be execution. Okay, don’t get caught in the claptrap. Get rid of that. Be the only one that does what you do. Roy here is planning trees that he’s probably never going to sit in the shade of, but he stays up to date. You can’t innovate anything if you were copying someone. Be authentic. Be yourself. If you’re a college student, you’re just coming up in life. Get through school, graduate. Good for you. Put the textbooks aside and get into the real world. And again, if you don’t know how to do something, get your asking gear. People will be there to guide you. But be audacious. Like my guy Roy says, to rock what you want, to rock what you are passionate about, to set out and achieve what you want. There are many facets to that part that come at a face value and then underline as well. It’s not what you’re born with or how you look. It’s about the choices you make to do things that you care about. And again, be different. Be audacious. Be the only one. And that’s what my good buddy Roy does. He levels up his health. He levels up his wealth. He’s hungry, yet he’s humble. He’s earned his varsity squad letter here. Time to shine today. Thank you so much for coming on. Roy. Absolutely. Love you guys. Brother. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. You bet. Chat soon.

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