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Speech Transcript (very little editing so not exact)

Mandy! Please introduce yourself to time to shine today podcast for us to scrub up first. What’s your favorite color? And why Blue? Blue?

Easy answer.

You’re both rockin a version look good right now. I’m looking at the Atlantic Ocean right now over here to my right. And yeah, it’s still it’s blue. It’s just super hot. So I mean, I want to love to keep my my shows light in moving. But grief is a real thing. You know. So you know really kind of want to go deep and kind of get into what happened in your roots to get to you where you are today doing such a phenomenal, awesome service to people.

Yeah, so my grief story started when I was really young. And over the last 38 years of my life, I’ve lost someone probably every year, it’s hard to count. But I’ve also experienced a lot of grief events that were unrelated to death because grief is not limited to the loss of life. And in 2016, my mom died, it was after a four month fight with cancer. That sends me down the new trajectory. That was she was the most significant loss I’d experienced to that point. And I’m talking about in addition to miscarriages and other losses as well, that personally affected me. And so as we progressed the four years between 620 16 and 2020, when I wrote the book, I was going through a lot of very confrontational moments with my faith practice with my community. And in loving ways to say you can’t do this, you can’t support me the way I need it. I’m trying to figure out what that looks like too. But I need you to come along with me. And so in 2020, when I had just lost my job, I just had a miscarriage, it was just dealing with some very public personal attacks on my character. It was a very traumatic thing to see, oh, now we’re in a global pandemic. And we’re shutting down the world for the next two weeks. That was the day that I said, I don’t want to live in a world that’s not grief literate. I’m going to do whatever I can to bring what served me to the foreground, but not in a way to say this is what helped me so it will help you in a way that says this is what helped me and here’s how I discovered what would actually be meaningful for me in grief work because nothing is completely universal in what would help. And so it transformed into writing this book about my story as kind of a memoir. are, but also a guide book to really support the faith community that I was a part of, because they were struggling to know what to say, that didn’t minimize my pain or spiritually bypass it. And it ended up becoming this incredible tool. Because two years ago today was the anniversary of the almeyda fire in our region. So it was a wildfire that annihilated two of our towns right next door. My work became very practical very quickly. And to this day, most of the people involved in my coaching practice, either in the group or in person, our fire survivors from that year. And so it’s a really become this career path I never wanted, but the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done in my life.

Wow. I love that you’re transparent about that. You didn’t ever want it. But it’s, it’s happening. So when you’re, you’re someone that is went through grief did how did you? Did you write yourself out? Through what I mean by kind of like therapy through writing and get out? Or did you have somebody in a tribe of people that help you through that

it’s a combination of things, my community was very big, just as far as like a lot of connections. And when you are grieving, it is completely reasonable and necessary, in my opinion, to make your intimate circle very small, like three people that you can call upon, that can really be the backbone, because what happens is, a community wants to support you, but they don’t know how to do that or what to say. But they, to a degree feel obligated to show up. And oftentimes that can cause a lot of unintentional harm by saying things that are meaningless and make us want to like keep our distance from some individuals. For me, I was already in therapy and 2020. Well before that, because of that situation I spoke of, for a lot of anger and a lot of grief and a lot of just frustration and resentment. And that was helping. But there’s no silver bullet. And so I’m a big fan of collecting resources and getting to know yourself and identifying your core values in that season. Because that is what becomes the guideposts to lead us forward. Like we don’t know what’s meaningful therapy, talk therapy isn’t meaningful for everyone. But if my values are connection and authenticity, then talk therapy is going to be a really great tool sure to fit where I’m at in that season, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. And one thing about grief is that it’s an emotion, but it affects you physiologically too. Can we agree on that, like, oh, it will release cortisol and just all this other shit, for lack of better term that can damage your cells while you’re going through it. So I’m reading in the research that I did on you is are you alleviating some of that through actual physical movement?

Oh, yeah. So my, my platform, if you can call it that, the methodology of restorative grief is that we are whole individuals, heart, mind, body and spirit. So in our thoughts and our emotions in our heart, in our physical somatic feelings in our body and in our spiritual connection to ourselves, others the world and our understanding of God or higher power. And so in everything that we do, grief, throws it into align misalignment. Our job then as Grievers to be intentional with our values is to say, Well, what about what I’m experiencing? My body feels out of alignment? is am I experiencing more back pain or distinct like tension in my neck? Am I having stomach aches that I didn’t have before? Being aware of that impact on our body allows us to then say, well, what could I do that alleviates that that’s not just looking at the symptom of a tummy ache, but it’s looking at the source of oh my gosh, anxiety, of anticipatory grief, because this person is going to die and I’m freaking out about it. And it’s manifesting in my stomach. What can I do to then say, I see you, I acknowledge that this is a valid real thing that’s happening to me, it’s not just all in my head. And I can bring that part of my body back into the present moment through different yoga practices are different eating habits, or maybe I’m taking walks more often, or maybe I am doing talk therapy and we’re discussing how my anxiety is impacting my digestion. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely.

And breathing exercises and everything that can kind of get you grounded, the slow the physiological process of the damaging things I love that you’re digging into the core values of people as well to see would be the best route to take through the therapy. So do you work a lot one on one, Mandy?

I do have a private one on one coaching practice. Yeah,

beautiful. So while you’re maybe in a discovery period, is there any and you know, they’re coming to you? We already know you’re very niched in with grief but you know, is there anything in your protocol our secret sauce, if you don’t mind share that maybe helps you find that a blind spot of grief, maybe just that quickly, but to really recognize it or identify it,

I start a lot of conversations with people by just asking about their story who they are at the at the core of them. I’m very big on storytelling, because it’s really easy to point to facts and events and say, Well, this is what shaped me when the reality is, well what shaped you might not even be something that you are consciously aware of that you carry. And so I use a lot of tools like the Enneagram Personality Typing, not to say, Okay, now this is going to be the perfect thing for you, because you have this personality type. It is all an opportunity for us to become more curious. And so I don’t necessarily like say, okay, within two sessions, I’m going to know what your problem is. Within two sessions, I’m going to have asked you a lot of questions that are going to put a lot of homework on your plate. And if you’re in a place where that is a good idea, let’s go. If you’re not, that’s okay, I have a ton of resources. And our private coaching group is specifically for people who are ready to observe and like just kind of watch what it means to bear witness to each other, but aren’t necessarily ready to dive in and be vulnerable or chase down their own. Deep rooted What am I grieving because we have a lot of latent grief that we don’t necessarily have assigned as grief in our story. And so the more that we get to know who we are, where we come from, and what we value, the more we can identify where we want to head and begin to integrate all of those concepts and our story of grief into who we are becoming,

you’re unpacking it, you’re getting down really, I know I’ve used the word word core a lot. But the core is where you’re really digging down to so well, while you’re maybe in the discovery period. Is there any? Is there any good question that you wish they would ask you, but never do?

Hmm, let’s see. I really love the question, What am I missing? And the reason why is I don’t necessarily have the answer to what someone is missing, so to speak. But I know that we heal best in community, neurologically, we are created for connection, our nervous systems regulate one another when we are in a safe environment. And when we are regulated, when we are able to say our window of tolerance is wide open, we can handle disruptions, we can handle new grief events, we can handle confusion, whatever it is, without exploding or shutting down, then we are in a place where we are going to be more aware of and open to trying new ways of integrating what feels good and accepting that I feel safe in relationship with this person. Cognitively, we can then say, oh, that person is is a good fit for where I’m at in my life. And I value community. So I’m going to be vulnerable. And again, cost something cost my pride or whatever and say, You know what? Our relationship really feels safe to me. Can we explore? Can we spend some more time together? Those vulnerable types of questions are really hard to do when you don’t know that that’s what you’re lacking. And so I really love the opportunity to speak into someone’s life pretty pointedly and say, Yeah, you don’t have any people you trust, or No, I see you, but you’re super self protective right now. And that’s okay. Because we all are. But if you are willing to let me like, pull that down with you. Right? What could happen? What could be what could be true for you? And what could go deeper where you really need and want to identify what’s hurting? We could excavate that. And so it’s all a partnership. But I would say yeah, ask people what’s missing what they see. Love it

it. And so you mentioned to keep kind of your tribe small, while you’re kind of going through it is because people are coming with good intentions, but they could just be throwing everybody off. So obviously you would be part of their tribe, too work through it. Who who would be another good like Avatar of a person? What kind of values might they have or stuff that they can bring to the table to help with somebody? That’s that’s going through grief?

Yeah, so I actually wouldn’t put myself in someone’s immediate circle. I would say I’m I’m a secondary support if I have agreements and that relationship with people, but I’m a big fan of Rene brown took a concept once upon a time of Ray, strong back Wildheart Okay, strong back soft front Wildheart or maybe I’m butchering that and I’m the one that added wild heart I can’t remember anymore because it’s been a while. Sure. Point is I actually love that idea of and that’s an a personal thing of she’s saying have a strong back have a soft front and a wild heart and I think I added wild heart. I can’t remember Sure. I have no idea. Point is I break that down in my mind to three different types of people. A strong back is someone who will stand up for you and say like, I got you girl. No, she doesn’t need your help. Thank you. or I will be the forerunner. If you need people to call the funeral home, or you need someone to speak on your behalf and back you up socially. Um, they’re the soft front is the person that to me can call in the middle of the night, or who will show up with a suitcase and say, I’m here to spend the night is that okay? Great. And that will put themselves on the line, and invite you into that tender space of vulnerability that you really need. And the wild heart is the person that says, are you free? Because we’re going to Disneyland? Or would you like to go wine tasting today and play hooky from work? Are you feeling the person that will like over a casual cup of coffee, say, what’s your deepest fear? Because I think we can get there. I think this is the moment, that person that’s willing to say, let’s just be reckless, we’ve lost enough already. What have we got left to lose, because you’re safe in this relationship. And, and I find there are some people that can occupy all three of those spaces. But when you start to really drill down who those people could be for you, you have this opportunity to invite them in and get their consent to that type of relationship to say, like, I’m in crisis. I’m grieving, and I don’t know up from down. But I know that you’re my person that I can rely on to stand up for me, I know that you’re the person that will ask me really hard questions. I know that you’re the person who will let me fall apart without trying to fix it. Are you? Are you available to me right now, to be that? And it might not be? They might not be? And they’ll be honest. But then you know, and you’ve got this clear relationship definition that serves you both long term. So that’s, that’s what I think the core like. That’s why I say three, because I think it looks like that.

No, that’s, that’s, that’s awesome. Because you have like the strong back who’s kind of an ass kicker, the soft front, which is more of a consoler. And, you know, kid gloves, and then you have, you know, the wild heart that will get the community that is involved around and get them out and about and I love it, man. That’s frickin awesome. So have you seen the movie Back to the Future? Oh, of course. Okay, let’s get that to Laurie with Marty McFly. Let’s go back to the You told me your age. So let’s go back to the double deuce, the 22 year old. You know, Mandy, is there any knowledge that gets us to come here? Time to shine today? Any knowledge? And I guess that? I mean, your attorney has been crazy, but it’s your journey. I don’t want you to change anything on your journey. Okay. I wouldn’t but thank you for saying that. But is there any now saying she might drop under to maybe help or shorten the learning curve blast through or level up? Maybe just a little quicker?

Oh, yeah. Drop the guard sister. I have been. Now in my old age and wisdom. I can see through self protection. Like it’s like it’s a mask someone’s wearing right? Well, because it is at 22 I was so guarded and so afraid of being vulnerable because I didn’t know how to trust people after being hurt. I didn’t know I had practice vulnerability in a lot of ways. But I’d also been the strong back for so many people, including myself, that I didn’t allow myself to be anything else. And as I’ve aged and gone through so many different experiences and losses, I’ve recognized not only is the soft front so necessary in conjunction with the strong back but the wild heart is the one that says you can be vulnerable and you can risk being hurt again because in the risk you will find not just a reward you will find life you will become so fulfilled by experiencing the fullness of that life and grief cycle because we can’t avoid it and that strong back of in my past was absolutely yeah, in an attempt to avoid all pain all hurt which love it. I understand we all do it but it doesn’t serve us long term.

No beautiful. I love that. That’s what you would say. And then that’s good at any age to that’s fantastic. So maybe how do you want your dash remember that little line in between your incarnation date and your expiration date? Expiration Date like your lifetime today? Hopefully it’s a long long way down the line. But how do you want Mandy’s Dasher?

I want to make sure I leave a legacy that is evident that I lived fully alive that I was pursuing the fullness of experiences no matter the outcome if they were heavy, or on on comfortable or sad that I really lived fully present in all of those moments and taught others how to like show up in those moments for themselves too.

So what do you think people misunderstand about Mandy themselves?

About what about Mandy? Oh, that i i say this

laugh that laughter get infectious. Right? They’re like, yeah,

I say this all the time. Like I know I sound really like mature and calm and I am such a dork. I’m such a goofball. And I love to just get not reckless but like I love to play I love to run around As much as I am serious and like focused and doing this really important, necessary work, if I could just escape for two months and go like travel wine country with friends and go to clubs and like play, right, please, I need more fun. That’s like, the fun part of you, is often what we set aside when we’re grieving when we’re trying to be spiritually mature, when we’re trying to do anything that we feel is adulting. And we lose our sense of play, which is nothing like groundbreaking to say. But when you find people again, that can regulate your nervous system, so that all of that anxiety about I have to be an adult after we mature I have to be responsible can take a backseat, because you know, you’re safe and you know that you’re in community that will run with you and cover you when needed. It’s game on we can have the most fun we’ve ever had.

And I love that you you have to have the fun sign in. I know it because you know I it’s funny. I’m a biggest frickin goofball you’ll ever mean I’m six one I’m 260 pretty well put together and I’m like, the hugger do like the people are like, oh shit, is that guy like a bully guy? And I’m like, Hey, happy what’s all keep her you know, that’s just me. You know, but also I’m an introvert too. Like I am like I love my time at my kava bar. You know, Kava is like a route that you drink is very chill. And I like to sit down with my Kindle. And you know, in read, so, absolutely love that. So what do you think then? What what is Mandy’s definition of a life well lived.

One that is intentional and vulnerable and open to growth, and open to correction, open to being wrong. Open to I think that that’s where we self protect the most is we don’t want to regret our lives. So we don’t want to make mistakes. We want to do things right. We want to honor whatever culture we’re in. We want to honor whatever moral code we hold on to or an ethical, which is beautiful, right? But we can go too far in that direction and become rigid and live in a way that is so fear driven of the future or too, too busy ruminating on what was and what we had and what we compromised and left behind that we failed to be present. So I think for me, a life well lived is mindfulness of the moment, the the art of being present in absolute moment to moment life. And there’s this amazing Japanese principle that I can’t remember the name of it right now. But that’s exactly the whole thing. It’s this idea that this moment will never happen again, this moment, right cannot create this moment. Again, no matter what we do, even if the same people are in the same place with the same ingredients, it will be a different moment, because we are different people showing up in that moment. And so becoming really mindful of where we stand and present where our feet are located is.

That is the beautiful, best advice. I mean, ever, you know, I even have analogy with my coaching clients that you know, so many people have a foot in the future a foot in the past, I piss over the president, right. And it’s like, you picture yourself sitting in a car. And that rearview mirror is small for a reason, you know, past is a great place to visit learn from but like, leave it there. And the windshield is like everything that’s there that’s ahead of you. But like you can’t drive their freaking car without being present put in, you know, hitting the button to turn it on and going. So I love that you just said that.

One of the things too, just to add to that trauma informed grief educator, part of my work is being mindful too, that our ability to leave the past in the past is really hindered by our experiences with trauma. And so I want to be careful that and this, this I encounter a lot in coaching. So just hear my heart, we don’t necessarily recognize that it goes so much beyond mindset, it goes beyond our just decision to make a different choice or a better choice. We really do experience so much in our lives that are not ours to control. And doing that deep level like value level identity work, and working with people who are educated in that trauma arena, where you have the ability to then recognize to be able to even say for yourself, my rear view window mirror is a lot smaller than I think it is. Okay. What does that mean for me? How do I stay present when those absolute visceral flashbacks come to the table and want my attention? What tools do I have in my kit that I can say I’m safe, my body is present. I’m not at risk right now. Like because because you can say it but it’s meaningless if it doesn’t actually affect a change and have like a, like an undercurrent of of reality and an education behind it for you to like hold on to as real

wow, that’s that’s deep a strong you went deep way deeper than I ever do and I’m gonna re listen to this part of the podcast. To reiterate it bring it home time to shine today podcast versus squad we’re back in Mandy we’ll meet up one day I can visualize I can see it on down the road maybe share a brain Grenade out there in Oregon. Just had a little chill relaxed conversation probably talk to some of these questions. Maybe 1520 minutes but within our leveling up, Lady run Yep, five seconds with no explanations. You ready to level up? Hit me do it. All right. Mandy, what is the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received?

Get out of your own way.

Yes. share one of your personal habits that contributes to your success.

Walking? Yeah, good.

So you see me am walking down the street. You’re like, man, Fergie. Looks like using his doldrums a little bit. What book might you hand me? Other than yours? Sorry, I

wouldn’t even I wouldn’t even give you my book. What I hand you if you look low. I would give you this this. This story sucks. Because I read 1000 books. I would give you something humorous, like that was completely meaningless, but like David Sedaris, or something serious and beautiful, comedic,

awesome. Most commonly used emoji when texting.

Mine. Oh, it’s the the. It’s the like, sideways laughing because I think everything is funny.

Beautiful. Nicknames growing up. Oh, pants,

and super Mandy.

Just checkers. I’m an app monopoly.

Ah, Catan

Oh, really complicated. Really cool. super nerd. super nerd. Go to ice cream flavor. Coffee. So there’s a sandwich called the Super Mandy pants. What’s on that sandwich? Build it for me.

Dang. aoli My mom was a chef. You didn’t know this. And she was one of the best sandwich makers in my entire life. So it’s got sprouts. It’s got a Oh Lee. It’s got like some garlic. It’s got like four different meats. There’s

two. I was gonna say we’re going meats, right heirloom tomatoes. Yeah, like

four different ones. Like organic greens. It’s so good. There’s like, Dijon mustard is only the fanciest of mustards.

Love it? Yeah, exactly. Poupon love it. So, last question. you elaborate on this a little bit more. But what is the best decade of music 60s 70s 80s or 90s?

Oh my god. I loved the 90s I love the 80s but I love 90s music. It was when I finally I remember the day someone said like you don’t know who Britney Spears is? And I’m like, no, because I don’t care. I was like, I mean, like let me hit this. I’m in middle school. I should probably know and I was like, Oh, shoot. Okay, so like my secret sauce in my secret love of pop music.

Okay. I graduated in 90 So I just turned 50 So I graduated 90 So the 80s is my jam and I just like like just look at the 80s with like, you know the big hair don’t care the glam rock bands, metal bands, the thrash bands all kind of started the rap with the Beastie Boys and Run DMC the invasions of YouTube and Duran Duran and men at work. It’s like that’s kind of my jam. And I see a so many, like, mute much music like Pipal has like the song by AHA Take on me like yes saw

now so phone ringtone all through high school was picked on me by Aha. So I’m like an 80s 90s customer because I grew up outside of Seattle. Oh, very into grunge music and alternative rock and all of that stuff. So yeah, that’s that’s kind of where I hit. But then of course, pop music because I was in high school and all the boy bands were the thing. So I got

a huge Yeah. And I love the station for seven years at Seal Beach over it down in San Diego. And it was like we had this invasion of like this Nirvana and Pearl Jam and stuff like that in the early 90s. And like, really, out of Seattle, this grunge scene, and I was like, after that man, but then it was like, yeah, it’s yeah, it’s awesome. So really, how can we find you my love?

I am all over Twitter and Instagram at Mandy K part. Okay, I’m pretty active. And then my website, Mandy key. part.com has links to everything my groups, my book, my podcast, my Patreon, all those things are linked on Mandy capehart.com.

Let’s go into a little bit about your book restorative grief that you wrote in 2021.

Yeah. So it’s a 31 day memoir ish, I say because part of my story is throughout it. It’s really geared towards the faith community in a sense of, there are stories of like, what happened with my faith when I was grieving my mom’s loss. And each day is in a very short, consumable little punchy, little like devotional style, for lack of a better word has a prompt that also includes like a scripture reference, but it also includes practices and quotes and influence from every different religious experience that has affected my own grief process. And so it’s broad, but it definitely has a the theme of Christianity because that’s the religion I was.

I’m Krishna, it’s beautiful and squad. That let’s go with restorative grief. If you put restorative grief in any of our social, I don’t care if it’s Pinterest, I don’t care if it’s Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, anywhere you put restorative grief the first person that puts that I will personally buy a copy of Mandy’s book and hopefully Mandy can John Hancock it and mail it to you. Or if not, I can Venmo you the the money for the postage but that’s do that and she also if you go to her website, Mandy K partners, ma n d y C A P E H ar t.com, you can download your free book of how to rake regain control over grief. And you’ll subscribe to our monthly newsletter. I’ll tell you right now it’s more than worth it. To me one last salad, Mandy and leave us with one last Knowledge Nugget we can take with us internalize and take action.

I would love for the entire world to stop saying that site goes to healing site. Going to healing suggests that if a doctor sees someone bleeding out, they can say hey, you’re bleeding. Congratulations, now you can be healed. When the truth is, and I hear this a lot in the faith community. If we have sight on a thing, we can get healing for the thing. But there are steps in between. And so I’m very insistent that sight actually goes to an opportunity for insight to ask them questions to figure out what is it that hurts? What do I see? What am I lacking? What needs support? And how do I get it and then we take action on our own behalf and we test some things out and whether it’s a perfect answer and the action was wonderful. Everything we needed or it falls short. We are still gaining a modicum of healing because healing is an ongoing process. It’s not destination to reach

I love it. I love it and squad we literally just had a free masterclass on how to work abbreviated masterclass really, but and how to work with grief. And Mandy reminded us that grief is not limited to a loss of life, there’s so many things that really surrounds grief. And you know, she’s setting up programs and writing books, and in just meeting with people to provide a work that is the literate to grief, okay? She Mandy’s passing on her knowledge to people to help them to work through it again, I wish she was in my life, you know, just a few years ago, you know, and she reminds us that if you’re going through grief, make your circle small, you know, because the bigger the circle, the more you’ll get unintentional harm from people kind of voicing their opinions, and whatnot, you know, and she wants you to identify your core values, especially while you’re grieving because that will really help facilitate the healing. You know, she’s believes in the whole individual, the mind, the body, the spirit, you know, a great counselor or a coach or therapist that’s working with grief wants to ask for your story. It’s easy to point out facts and events, Mandy told us, but you might not be able to catch them of really what’s bothering you, because there might be something buried in your story. And if you’re talking to Mandy, she’s going to ask ask ask. So what my good friend Leah Woodford would say she’s getting her asking gear to really get that story out of use. So she can find that path to put you on. You know, if you’re working with a counselor, or a coach or a therapist, you know, ask them what they feel that you’re missing as well. You know, and they’ll probably do it through even more questions, but still, don’t be afraid to ask. And she reminds us that we heal best in a community. You know, common nervous systems regulate one another. So you want again, Your vibe attracts your tribe. And she brought up the strong back soft front and wild heart you know, so again, you kind of have an ass kisser kicker, a consoler. And, you know, somebody that again, will help facilitate that community for healing. And she would tell her younger self and she’s telling you maybe if you’re in transition, drop the guard system, you know, less self protection and again, get your asking here, you know, in the risk you will find not just reward, but life fullness of life in the grief cycle. Her legacy will be she lived full alive, you know, and had just a ton of experiences that she can pass on. She enjoyed them the journey not so much every part of the journey but she enjoyed the journey because this good friend of my Mandy is planting trees she’s never going to sit in the shade on you know, she wants you to be vulnerable, open to growth, correction and being wrong and while you’re doing that, have fun with it. You know, and she lastly reminded that the site does not go to healing it like this sight will go to opportunity to learn more to facilitate the healing and remember, it’s an ongoing process. And that’s what my good friend Mandy will help you do. She levels up her house she levels up her wealth. She’s humble yet she’s hungry. She’s there diversity squad led her here at time to shine today. Thank you so much for coming on Mandy absolutely love your guts.

Same. I can’t wait to see you in Bend.

Yeah. Jeff soon. Bye now. Hey, thanks so much for listening to this episode of time to shine today podcast. proudly brought to you by Southern New Jersey real estate real estate excellence who can be reached at 561-249-7266 and online at www dot Sutter in nugent.com. If you’re a business owner or professional who would like to be interviewed on time to shine today, please visit time to shine today.com Flash guest. If you liked this episode, please subscribe on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify iHeart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts. There’s a link in the show notes to our website. Also there you will see a recommended resources. We hope that you will support our show by supporting them. If you like what you’ve been listening to, it’d be great if you could just give us a five star rating and tell your friends to subscribe while you’re at it. I’m your host Scott Ferguson. And until next time, let’s level up it’s our time to shine

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