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Speech Transcript

0:00  

Hey, this is Kwame Christian with the American negotiation Institute. And if you really want to learn how to level up your life, you should be listening to the time to shine today podcast with my good friend Scott Ferguson.

0:11  

Time to shine today podcast varsity squad, Scott Ferguson, we’re at Episode 175 with my good buddy, Ohio State Buckeye, my guy, Kwame Christian from the American negotiation Institute. And he has pretty much I would say forgot more about negotiating than I ever will know. And that’s coming from somebody that’s negotiated contracts with real estate for the past 22 years. But Kwame is fantastic. so down to earth and yet I’m sure if he gets into a negotiation room, he can probably eat your lunch for you if you want it. But no, without further ado, here comes my really good friend Kwame Christian, from the American negotiation Institute. Let’s level up.

1:03  

Time to shine today varsity SWAT into Scott Ferguson. And everything in life is a negotiation. You know, I’m not even gonna try to talk to you about negotiation when I have my guest Kwame Christian on here because he’s forgotten more about negotiating than I probably ever have. And you’re talking to a guy that’s been negotiating real estate contracts for 22 years but I am so stoked that I get to sit here and listen to my guy who has a Caribbean he’s from the Caribbean and you know that I live here in South Florida. I like to make my way over to the islands quite a bit. But he’s my homeboy from the Midwest. You know, I’m from Michigan is a lot of people know, he’s here in in Columbus, Ohio area. And it’s just cool because he’s got this little accent of the Caribbean but the man is a Midwest guy haunts fishes does it all but Kwame Christian, is the director of American negotiation Institute where he conducts negotiation and conflict management workshops around the country as an attorney which I forgot to mention that he is an attorney, which we all know we think of attorneys. I’m kidding, Kwame, but no as an attorney and mediator with a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Master of Public Policy and a law degree. Kwame brings a unique multidisciplinary approach to making difficult conversations easier. So without further ado, Kwame, I’m going to have you come on Introduce yourself the time to shine today varsity squad. But first, what’s your favorite color? And why?

2:27  

Oh,

2:28  

wow. I like I like that the way you snuck that in. Man, I guess I guess I should stay in. I just stay on brand. Now. It’s now it’s blue. But of course, you know, if I have to pick my favorite color combo, I have to say Scarlet and gray.

2:43  

Like blue as in maize and blue.

2:49  

Okay, there we go. We are united in our approach toward the Wolverine. Flu flu.

2:55  

I got it though. No, I love it. I love it. So let’s, let’s get to the origins. I mean, your your family’s from the Caribbean. Right. And you were you’re a Midwestern boy. But let’s get to the origins of Kwame and brought them up into maybe education through law school, and then we’ll get into the anai

3:10  

Yeah, so um, I went to OSU. So I’m, I call myself a triple Buckeye. So I love psychology that’ll probably come out in this interview, too. So I love psychology, my undergrads in psych. And then I went to law school, or my law degree and my Master of Public Policy, both from OSU. And so originally, Scott, I wanted to be a politician. And thankfully, as I learned more about politics, I said, No way, I’m doing this to myself and my family. These people have crazy body. And so, but I really enjoyed negotiation, I stumbled upon it, it was the first time I saw psychology being used for a business or legal purpose. And so I said, for whatever, whatever it is, I do this needs to be a part of it. Because I’m a recovering people pleaser. And when I learned about negotiation, it taught me that this is a skill that can be learned, I can get better at this. And so now when I teach negotiation, and conflict resolution trainings for different companies, and for leaders, I really start from the inside out, helping people to find that confidence and conflict, and then give them the higher level skills so they can negotiate more effectively.

4:15  

Gotcha. What was that you

4:16  

just said about conflict? conflict, you said get the skills of say that, again, helping them to find confidence in conflict. And so that’s me staying on brand, of course, because the TED Talks name, finding confidence and conflict, and the book is named finding confidence in conflict. And Scott, the reason I say that is because when I surveyed my audience to figure out what it is they wanted me to say in my podcast and negotiate anything. And my trainings, I’m asking what are the key things, your main concerns, and the two words that kept on coming up was confidence and conflict, they’re lacking the confidence and they are particularly afraid of conflict. And so that’s really my approach helping people from the inside out. So you can you can be More assured and overcome those psychological and emotional barriers. Sure, then once we get to that point where we’re having those high level negotiations, now we can bring in those skills to

5:09  

love it. So quite what makes a great negotiator?

5:12  

empathy. Empathy is a big one. And a people are afraid of empathy. People think that empathy is a concession, but it’s really a necessary part of persuasion. And what we need to do in order to empathize is be curious. And so my approach, my framework that I use in, in conflict resolution, as my base is called the compassionate curiosity framework, where we’re first acknowledging and validating emotions, getting curious with compassion, and then engaging in joint problem solving. And when we take the time to empathize and learn from the other side, it puts us in a position to persuade at a higher level.

5:49  

Wow, that’s fantastic. So when you’re bringing people in, you know, they’re looking to hire you to help with their negotiating skills? What is maybe your secret sauce, if you don’t mind sharing a little bit of it, to help them find their blind spot? negotiating?

6:08  

Yeah, well, the thing that’s tough is that, when I’m working with a large group, different people have different needs. So I always survey them to see what those commonalities are. And the funny things got is that everybody struggles with emotions, it’s either managing their own emotions or managing the emotions of others. And so that’s the beauty of the framework. That’s why it’s designed that way to address those emotions. Because the reality is, when you label and identify emotions, by using terms, like it sounds like or it seems like, and then we just validated by saying it makes sense. I don’t, I don’t necessarily agree with you. I’m not condoning the behavior. But I’m acknowledging that given your perspective, it makes sense that you feel this way. Doing that repeatedly until the emotions goes down is the best way to get to that point where you can have higher level dialogue. And the reality is, when it’s our conversations with our kids, or spouses, or even negotiations at work, a lot of times we don’t even get to that higher level dialogue, because we’re Miss messing up in the emotion side. We don’t manage that effectively. So I will always want to start there.

7:11  

Let’s dig a little bit on labeling emotions. Talk to me about that, because I understand what identifying them as, but labeling some people can take that that are might be listening to me and like label is a judgment in a sense, or, you know what, let’s dig a little bit deeper on the labeling emotions.

7:26  

Yeah. So what do we want to do is we want to have a non judgmental label, we it’s just a simple observation. And so for example, one that’s really easy to go to, and it’s safe, because it’s not an offensive label is, it seems like you’re really frustrated right? Now, it sounds like this, this, this situation has made you really frustrated, right? Everybody’s been frustrated, that’s not a bad thing. And the thing is, this is the reason why it works. When you are really emotional. It’s your amygdala, the limbic system, the part of your brain that produces those emotions, right. And then there’s another part of your brain, the frontal lobe, and this is where you have your higher level thinking. But it’s an antagonistic relationship. If you’re highly emotional, you’re not thinking very logically. And if you’re thinking very logically, you’re most likely not highly emotional. And so the reason this works is that it’s taken again, from psychology, what people do is they call it effect labeling. So what we’re doing is we’re labeling the emotion and in therapy, they do this with their clients, and it calms them down. Because in order to accept or reject the label, they have to think logically about it. And the part of the brain that identifies and those emotions is called the, and you don’t need to know this at all, but it’s called the ventral medial prefrontal cortex. Right? So they have to, yeah, so they have to think in that frontal lobe in order to see Yes, you’re right, or you’re wrong.

8:46  

Wow, that’s amazing. So if I’m out at a networking event, which we’re allowed to do here in South Florida, regardless of what you see on TV, we’re out we’re not working. We’re wearing mass social distancing, because we’re folks, we’re in like de 9800. And of the quarantine right now, but if I’m out networking, maybe pressing a little flash talking to some people, what kind of things are people saying that would make me say that they’re a good prospect contact connection for the anti American negotiation Institute?

9:18  

Oh, yeah. I mean, when it comes to it, we’re we’re trying to work with companies and organizations. And so I like working with people who have to work with people. That’s the beautiful thing, Scott, because we’ve worked with nonprofits who are trying to, you know, do some good work in the community, we’ve worked with fortune 500 companies, we’ve worked with the army, and they’re negotiating weapon systems and, and things like that, and military contractors. And the thing is, that’s that’s why I named the podcast negotiate anything, because anybody whether it’s somebody who’s more transactional, they might be a lawyer. They might be in sales, they understand that they’re going through these transactional interactions are also leaders, people who are leading teams, they have to manage conflict in their teams. You might be honest As a team, you have to manage conflict in between the people who are on your level and figure out where people are best positions. And so whenever you’re in a position where you are interacting at a high level with people, I think that’s where we can come in and add value.

10:12  

Love that love that. Everybody needs it. You know, what’s funny is I learned that, like, kids are the best negotiators. You know, when you’re going through, I mean, supermarkets do a right where they put that candy in that aisle, right? So that I’m thinking back to your emotions and labeling and stuff like that. And they you start so young, of being a great negotiator, right? Why does it go away?

10:39  

Yeah, here’s, here’s the thing. It’s self awareness. That’s the thing. Self Awareness gives. And it taketh away.

10:47  

Right, you

10:48  

know, and the thing is, we become really sensitive about what people think about us, when we are children. were extremely egocentric. Right? This is what I want, period. Okay, how can I get that? Yeah, I’m going to ask, and I’m not going to stop at Right, right. But then as we get older, we start to consider the people around us, not just consider them, but also consider what they think about us. And we are very, very afraid of rejection. And so one of the biggest things I see is that people will not ask for what they want, because they’re afraid of being rejected. Absolutely.

11:23  

That’s a fantastic answer. That’s what I was hoping to hear. You think a lot of it has to do their programming as were raised, because I’ve heard and I saw stats that a kid is told no, by the time he’s 14 years old, I can average 135,000 times, you know, so you think that that has something to do with the programming that were brought up. And then what you do at AI, is kind of maybe strip away that programming in a sense, and help them with the right tools to level up. They’re gonna go Yes,

11:50  

yeah. So think about it, Scott, it’s often difficult to see where our culture begins. And we end like, what’s the difference between me and what I was taught. And so we have to, you’re right, we have to strip it down to figure out what I really want out of life. And culture plays a big role in it. So you think about a lot of people here in the Midwest, you taught to be polite, and everything, you’re taught to be nice and generous and friendly. And a lot of times, people take it to the next level and say yeah, but don’t be greedy. And sometimes we misinterpret greediness with asking for what we are we want, those aren’t the same things. And so one of my recent guests on the podcast, she was talking about the negotiation culture of India. And the beauty of this is that when we have the we try to have a diverse guests, set of guests, racially gender wise experience, like people who are relationship therapists, people who are transactional negotiators, right? Reality is everybody has something to add to the dialogue. And so when she came on the show, and she was talking about the negotiation culture of India, she was saying, everybody negotiates it’s really not even a choice, right? We’re gonna negotiate, and we will ask you questions that you as Americans will find very invasive.

13:01  

Yeah, you know, I’ve been a real estate broker for 22 years. And it’s the some of my best clients, but toughest clients are Indians, Indian people, you know, and I love it, because I’ve learned so much from because they just ask that you ask, and they’re not afraid, you know, what’s worse than someone that to say, is no, that’s in any negotiation with real estate Kwame, it’s, you know, you send an offer in and they can either accept it rejected or counter it. I mean, there’s only three things is dumbed down so much people want to make it this whole, the this whole crazy system. So when you’re working with, you know, maybe a company or individual, is there any good question that you wish they would ask you, but never do?

13:43  

Yeah, yeah. What’s the long term goal? And so I end up asking them this question. And then they sit back. And they they say, That’s a really great question. Because a lot of times we think to tactically, when you think about negotiations in a micro sense, we’re just saying, What do I need to do right now to get what I want? And we don’t think about the big picture. What about the relationship? What about the context of my whole career? How does this fit into that? And so then I asked them that question, because they just think, Oh, I’m in procurement, I need a negotiation training. I’m in sales, I need a good negotiation training. What is your What is your main concern? What is your team dealing with? After this is done? What’s the transformation you hope to see? And they don’t think about that? And so when I asked that question, it changes the way that we approach the training, because I try to customize every training for every every client.

14:32  

Everybody’s different. Everybody is Yeah. So let’s come clean here. Tell me about a negotiation fail on your part. I mean, example.

14:40  

Yeah, you know what? And here’s the thing, Scott, if you ask a negotiator and they don’t have an answer for that, then they’re probably not that very, they’re not very good. You have to have some else. And the one that I think about the most is, it’s actually a mediation. So I mediate. And so one of the things that What happened is there was a mediation, we were all wrapped up. We just needed to sign the agreement. And one of the parties asked, hey, what’s the interest rate? Because it was a situation where they weren’t making the payments. And they came to a deal where there’s going to be monthly payments installments, and then there has to be an interest rate.

15:19  

And the other

15:22  

the other side said, The, the interest rate is 24% per year. And I said, Wow. I said, I made that sound. He’s like, the guy is like, Hey, no commentary. I’m like, I’m sorry. I.

15:37  

I’m sorry.

15:38  

I was genuinely taken.

15:41  

I was caught off guard.

15:43  

Awesome, dude. Yeah. Oh, my God.

15:45  

Clearly as a third party Doodle, I cannot you can’t do it that way, right. But I was so caught off guard because we were all done. My guard was down and he was signing and it was just a little passing comment. through me, it threw me all the way up. Thankfully, we still got it done. But um, yeah, that was that was a bad one.

16:04  

Thank you for being transparent. That is awesome. That is awesome. That’s all I can think about with negotiation mediation, is that movie Wedding Crashers? Oh, no. You ever saw where they’re sitting there at the table with a I think it was actually dwight yoakam and Rebecca de mornay. And just watching them go off and then then bringing them all back together. But I don’t I don’t even know why my mind went there. But that’s what I thought about when you’re sitting there at the table. So, let you have you seen the movie Back to the Future?

16:35  

It’s been a while.

16:36  

Okay, it’s been a while let’s get our DeLorean with Marty McFly. Let’s go back to the 18 year old Kwame. What kind of knowledge nuggets we call knowledge nuggets here at time to shine today. What kind of knowledge nuggets? Are you dropping on that Kwame? mash, shorten his learning curve level up and blast through maybe a little quicker?

16:53  

Yeah, what I would say is this, take control of your education. Okay, because I’m with my Caribbean parents. My mom has a PhD in nutrition she was a professor and my dad has is a surgeon. And so they were always about education, learn, learn, get all these degrees, get all these degrees. The focus was always though get the degrees from an institution. Now post law school, I’ve recognized that I’ve learned so much more through self education than I ever did. school. I try to read a book a week. And every time I finish a book, the way that I know it was a good book is if I feel kind of dumb afterwards where I say to myself, how did I navigate this world without this knowledge that I just received? That’s crazy, you know. And so I want to have that level of, of Route regulatory experiences every week, week after week. And you know, when you’re in school, you’re not always getting that you’re being taught what other people want you to think. And it’s not always specifically tailored to what it is you want to achieve. Right. So I would have tried to instill that reading habit earlier. Because I think about the incredible leaps that I make week to week now as an adult, just because I’m taking control of my education. Wow.

18:03  

Wow. And you hear that squaddies? Not talking about the formal education he’s taking control of I mean, you get a great degree from institution if that’s your path. But you know, not all readers are leaders but all leaders are readers period. You know what I’m saying? So it’s like Kwame, obviously he is the epitome of that because he not only leading a company that works with a fortune 500 fortune 100 companies but he’s he’s educating himself every day. That’s fantastic. Kwame, how do you want your dash? Remember, that little line in between your incarnation date and your expiration date? Your life date and death date? How do you want that dash? Remember? Maybe your epitaph your legacy?

18:37  

Yeah, it’s simple. I want people to say he changed the world. And the way that I look at the world is I believe that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. Right? My goal is to help to make these difficult conversations easier.

18:51  

Wow. Well, you know, what’s funny with you is that I look at you and I’m like, this guy’s doing so much. And you’re like me with you’re a go giver, you know, you’re you’re giving, giving, giving, but like when you and I look back, and I’m quite a bit older than you, but when you and I look back, you know, our techniques are going to be so outdated, but mattered, just like the B two bomber in 1942 that we won the World War Two, whether we’re 1948 whatever year that was that we won the war with, you know, like that’s out there. You never see but it was necessary. You are somebody that’s doing something necessary now that’s consistent, consistently evolving, but it’s I think you’re the kind that wants to look back and go man, what I did isn’t even relevant anymore. But that’s the reason why we’re here. Am I saying that? Right?

19:40  

Absolutely. And think about how exciting that is? Because we all stand on the shoulders of the people behind it came before us. Yeah, think about even think about something like medicine how medicine is rapidly improving. Crazy. It’s crazy every single year. Yeah, I think about the the doctors in the day who might have used you know, leeches is like that, right? They were trying their best, right? We’re trying their best

20:05  

what that? Yeah.

20:06  

And if we didn’t have those people willing to try and experiment and learn new things, then we wouldn’t be where we are today. And so I think people really need to take the steps to get out there and get their message out there. Because even if you’re wrong, you’re moving the conversation forward,

20:19  

right? Absolutely. Quantum, what’s three things you can’t live without?

20:23  

I would have to say, let’s just make it really general and say my iPhone that’s big because that I always do audiobooks. And so I listened in triple speed. And then I take notes on the audiobooks and then review the notes. So that is like my method of education. And then I would say, now in COVID world, it has to be the laptop to me, that’s, I mean, that’s our

20:46  

Alright, one or one thing non non electronic,

20:49  

non electronic. Oh, now we’re getting fun. Can’t live without the gym man. Can’t live without him every morning. 5am in there, blowing off steam. I mean, it’s almost like a religious experience. It is put in music and you get it in, get it done. Right. I feel like you build that momentum throughout the day. Yeah. And yeah, I’ll stick with books in general. There you go. And then, man, third one. I would say I have to say family friends. They keep your cheat meal, man. Oh, my cheat meal. Right now in the fall. It’s pumpkin loaf. It’s, it is a disease at this point. I look at the nutrition facts. And it’s horrible. And I eat about half of one like an entire weekend and every week and I say Kwame, you can’t do this again. And then

21:42  

I love it. I love it. So as we level there is one thing sound just a little bit. I’m gonna do our leveling up lightning round, we got five or six questions. You and I could talk an hour on each one of these topics or questions but you got five seconds with no explanations and all of them can be answered that way. You’re ready to rock. Let’s Let’s level up. What’s the best leveling up advice Kwame has ever received?

22:06  

Oh, God, keep leveling up.

22:08  

There is no and Rosie. Love it.

22:10  

There’s no Ed

22:11  

share one of your personal habits or contributes to your success.

22:15  

Other than reading every day, I would just say it’s outsourcing, delegating to delegating.

22:22  

Love it other than your fantastic website over the American American negotiation Institute. And of course, time to shine today. That’s my shameless plug, which is another website you go to the level up

22:33  

LinkedIn. There you go is on LinkedIn

22:36  

we met there. Fantastic, right? So not what you’re reading now or listening to now. Not the flavor of the month. If I’m in my doldrums not feeling it? You’re like Fergie read this. What book is it?

22:47  

First of all, I love that you called yourself Fergie. That’s what would it be? I would say I’m feeling the 10 x rule right now my Grant Cardone

22:56  

GC Love it. Love it. Awesome. So what’s your most commonly used emoji when your tax?

23:04  

You know that that purple devil phase with the menacing smile.

23:09  

Alright, Kwame, what is your favorite charity and our organization like to give your time or money to?

23:17  

I would say most recently, it’s well, it’s a local organization called women for economic and leadership development. I was on their board for a while. And what I yeah, this is a lightning round can’t go on. But that’s that’s the innovation. Love it.

23:32  

So if you could be one age physically, physically for the rest of your life, while still getting the knowledge and still being able to do it like mine’s 32. I’m almost 5032 is my jam. What age would you be?

23:45  

See? It’s funny, I just turned 32 last day

23:48  

there to say I’m staying here you go.

23:51  

I thought I thought we went down to 30. But I’m like, Oh man, I know.

23:57  

Love it. So last question. What is the best decade of music 6070s 80s or 90s 70s?

24:02  

Really nice. And cool. Cuz because I’m thinking American and Caribbean. That’s Bob Marley’s time to There

24:11  

you go. Love it. Love it. So how can we find you for me?

24:15  

Check me out on LinkedIn. That’s where I’m most active. I my promises that get everybody a personal message once they connect with me, I’m just trying to keep that promise as much as possible. It’s taking longer I’m like months behind now on LinkedIn. But um, but I’m trying to keep it going. And yeah, connect with me LinkedIn, Instagram, and then check out the podcast, negotiate anything.

24:35  

I love it. I love it. I’m hoping I get an interview on there myself. And it’s just about to bite you. So tell us about the book finding confidence and conflict.

24:44  

Yeah, so it’s an Amazon bestseller. And it’s something I’m really proud of, because it’s it’s my unique approach. And so the first 5060 pages is all about helping people to overcome their mental and emotional and psychological barriers to being Their best self, we all have them. So it helps you to uncover them and shows you how to overcome them. And then it gives you a very simple, powerful negotiation technique called the compassionate curiosity framework. And the cool thing about that framework is that it helps you to win not only the external negotiation but also the internal negotiation as well. So proud of it

25:21  

that you should be absolutely in squad. What I’m going to do is anybody that makes the first comment on commies, LinkedIn posts, I’m where we put up or a Twitter post or at the time to shine today, Facebook page, anyone that makes a comment that’s constructive. We would like I would like to purchase one of these books and I’m going to have it personally made out to you from Kwame, and it will mail it out to you. So that’s my gift to you. Finding confidence in conflict couldn’t negotiate anything and live your best life. Fantastic read you must pick it up. So Kwame, what is your definition of life well lived.

26:00  

When you look back and you have few regrets, you’re always gonna have regrets sure a few regrets

26:04  

love it few regrets. So squad you just got a free masterclass with my really good friend Kwame here. He’s a recovering people pleaser. He wrote the book, finding confidence in conflict, make sure you pick that book up. He reminds us that empathy is not empathy is not a concessions. It’s a necessary part of persuasion. Write that down. Empathy is not a concession. It’s a necessary part of persuasion, like we say a time to shine today. Get behind their eyeballs, see what they’re thinking, read their posture, read their tone. Remember, empathy is key. So when you’re labeling and identify emotions, do it in a non judgmental manner. And you can I will personally make introduction to you and Kwame to help you level up your negotiation skills, you because he wants to work with people who work with people that want to level up, you have to want to level up, you know, he’s going to tell you and remind you to take control of your education. Not only institutional education, if that’s your path, but always educate yourself. Always progress always evolve, because I’ll tell you what, I look in the mirror now. You know, I’m almost 50 years old. It’s not the same 28 year low looking SCADA wasn’t as handsome as Kwame is now you know what I’m saying? So, you know, it’s, you know, you always continue to evolve, who’s going to be remembered as someone who changed the world, and he’s looking back with no regrets. And he’s taken advantage of every opportunity that’s given to him. And hopefully this was a great opportunity for him. Kwame, thank you for so much for coming on. you level up your help you level up your wealth. You’re leveling up everybody else. You’re fantastic. Go Go share your fantastic person. Thank you so much for coming on, brother.

27:45  

Appreciate it, man. Have a good one day my friend. Hey, thanks

27:48  

so much for listening to this episode of time to shine today podcast, proudly brought to you by southern New Jersey real estate real estate excellence that can be reached at 561249726 in online at www dot Sutter in nugent.com. If you’re a business owner or professional who would like to be interviewed on time to shine today, please visit time to shine today.com slash guest. If you liked this episode, please subscribe on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify iheart radio or wherever you get your podcasts. There’s a link in the show notes to our website. Also there you will see our recommended resources. We hope that you will support our show by supporting them. If you like what you have been listening to, it’d be great if you could just give us a five star rating and tell your friends to subscribe while you’re at it. I’m your host Scott Ferguson. And until next time, let’s level up it’s our time to shine.

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