Being early can feel lonely before it feels legendary. This is my coaching knowledge nugget this week, folks. So most people don’t quit because the work is hard. They quit because the silence gets [00:01:00] allowed. When you’re early. There’s no applause, no validation, sometimes not even understanding from the people closest to you.

And that’s the trap because being early doesn’t feel like leadership. It feels like doubt. It feels like resistance. It feels like you’re carrying weight. No one else sees. I see this all the time with my coaching clients. The moment they start doing things right, more disciplined warnings, higher standards, better boundaries.

The friction shows up, people question them. Old systems push back. Comfort tries to pull them back in. That’s not a sign you’re wrong. That’s a sign you’re ahead. Here’s the mindset. Shift squad loneliness isn’t a punishment. It’s part of the toll for building something that lasts. You don’t need everyone to understand you.

You need to understand why you started. So stay neutral, stay disciplined. Stay consistent when no one’s clapping, because history doesn’t reward the comfortable, it remembers the ones who held the line before it was popular. Being early feels lonely, but if you stay the course long enough. That loneliness turns into legacy and talk about legacy in probably a lot of lonely days and nights.

Today’s guest, the legend who I immensely [00:02:00] respect, and I had her son John Neman on just a couple months ago about Rose Neman and make no mistake, you’re about to hear. From my legendary friend here. Rose isn’t just a CEO, she’s a female entrepreneur. Kicked doors in industries where she wasn’t invited, built her own lane, and then widened it for everyone behind her.

For more than 37 years, she’s been out working out, thinking and outlasting the status quo at the intersection of. Dentistry, medicine, sleep Apnea, TMJ and Headaches. She’s the CEO of Neman Practice Management and the creator of Dental Writer Software, a platform that finally allows dentists to collaborate with physicians, access medical benefits properly, and get paid for changing lives through dental sleep medicine.

But let’s be clear, rose didn’t inherit this position. She earned it through resistance, through a lot of skepticism, through being told that’s not how it’s done. And she was also a female in the seventies and eighties. Where I grew up in, I was young, but I remember how they were treated and, but she persevered and she proved otherwise.

Today she’s helped thousands of practices [00:03:00] build profitable compliance, sustainable programs while helping patients breathe better, sleep deeper, and live healthier lives. If you respect grit, leadership, innovation, and someone who refuses to play small, this is a conversation you need to lean into. And Ms.

Rose, thank you so much coming and you’re so welcome for coming in. I know that you were in here with. When John and I had our conversation, and yes, John, you can say, hi we brought John in today too. John, Jen. Hey everyone. You know when people hear dentistry right? They don’t usually think life changing work.

That’s correct. When did you personally realize the work you were doing went beyond teeth? 

Rose Nierman: I was a dental professional. My mother took me to the dental office, a dental office when I was 16. I thought I had an appointment and she told the dentist I want a job. So I’ve been, I’m like, I do.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): That starts off legendary. That’s awesome. It 

Rose Nierman: does. And so it. I started early and I love dentistry. Okay. And I love the people we work with, the dentist and the team. Yeah. They’re just really great. And so from that day on, I was [00:04:00] hooked. I ended up in an office that did a lot of TMJ treatment.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): In 

Rose Nierman: the eighties. And, we are really just starting to understand the TMJ and why it causes headaches and trigger points. And all of that. And I started looking at the patients and I thought, this is not a dental procedure, what we’re doing, right? We would put appliances in and do other physical therapy things and I thought, this is a medical condition, right?

I figured out how to build medical just to help our own patients. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Wow. 

Rose Nierman: Yeah. Next thing I know, doctor’s friends are calling me. And How’d 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): you do that? Asking I, I took 

Rose Nierman: a medical billing course and then you just, oh, self-study. But what 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): I’m saying is when these people were calling, they’re like, how did you do that?

Like, how is this even happening? Exactly. That’s what they were saying. Yeah. Oh, wow. And 

Rose Nierman: I would just, spend an hour or two going over. Right how to do it. And then at one point, I realized this is [00:05:00] a business,

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): and you’ve been, there’s a need close to 40 years now, right? Yes. It 

Rose Nierman: will be 38 I think, coming up.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): So you’ve been spending like 37, 38 years, bridging dentistry and medicine, right? Sure. So why has that gap over the years been so hard to close? Like why do most people, what do they misunderstand about? Why can’t it just happen? It like, it’s oh, you know you have TMJ, which I can.

I have it. Okay. I’m trying to get into the mic. Maybe Brian Producer picked that up, but I have it. So what is it that is taking so long for the bridge to happen between. Dental and medical? 

Rose Nierman: I think part of it’s the insurance companies. Okay. Don’t want to advertise that. A lot of these things may can be covered under medical.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Okay. 

Rose Nierman: But the, it’s starting, I think the word starting to get out. Okay. About how important it is to treat your sleep apnea. Sure. And you can use an oral appliance, not in every case if it’s real severe instead of having the CPAP. So I think the word’s starting to get out, but it [00:06:00] has taken a while.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Yeah. And I, until 2000, from 2005 when I woke up one morning and I couldn’t feel my legs, and I called my ex-wife in. And she’s you’re purple. So I went to a sleep study. Okay. And they said I woke up like 60 times an hour. Didn’t even, that’s severe sleep. AP, severe. I was at A-C-P-A-P and when I first started, I was at level 18.

On the CA. And then eventually I worked with somebody that helped shrink the inflammation in my throat area. And now I sleep without it. And I drank, at that time I was off 340 pounds. Just fat. But now it’s I don’t have those issues anymore, thank goodness.

But it’s a real deal. Yeah. Like people die from this stuff. Oh yeah. And it’s yeah, it 

Rose Nierman: can lead to dementia and heart disease and Right. High blood pressure and all kinds of things. Wow. That, we’re treating the symptoms 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): right. 

Rose Nierman: In medicine, we’re not treating the cause, the root cause.

The root cause.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Love it. So as that female entrepreneur, building authority in a male dominated clinical. In business environment. What obstacles? I wanna hear some good [00:07:00] stuff. What was it that like gimme a story where you’re like, not so much, ’cause there’s men and women and what men can think, but more of a business story like wanting to crush you for even thinking that you’re in this arena.

Rose Nierman: I was told by several people that there wasn’t a space for this. Okay. And that it wouldn’t work. How 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): did they tell you that? 

Rose Nierman: I remember talking to our dental representatives and I had this idea, and she goes, oh, there’s way too many consultants out there. That will never work. So there wasn’t as much pushback as I thought there would be.

But when I had the push back, I would just keep moving forward. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): And was there a time where you just like wanting to throw in the towel? 

Rose Nierman: Never. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Never. I’ve known you now for a few years. Yeah. And I’m like, dude, I don’t think she ever was like, I quit. No. To bring it on some more. And if you ever meet her, she’s this little beautiful, like little meek looking woman.

But I bet you John’s sitting here. I’m sure she has that side. Huh. Oh yeah. Where you can bring it out. Oh, yeah. Which John, see all the time. Congratulations, [00:08:00] by the way. And Rose had to go into the office, so I always just wanted to be a fly on the wall to watch the employees, which are all great employees, but see, oh my gosh, rose is coming.

Like she’s coming instead of John. They’re all like on their P’s and Q’s. So you don’t just educate Dennis, you built them systems like dental writer to kinda help support them. What kinda made you realize that educational alone wasn’t enough like that you wanted to put together a system for them to really use?

Rose Nierman: They definitely needed a platform because the documentation can get quite compliment quite complicated. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Okay. 

Rose Nierman: And we ha, I had this idea, my first thing was I wrote a 300 page manual on how to do medical billing in the dental world. How to bridge that gap? 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Was it on Word perfect or was it a typewriter?

Rose Nierman: It was, yeah, pretty much. Okay. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Wow. I’m not trying to date you, but I’m just know the years that you knew you went in. It 

Rose Nierman: was, and it took me nine months to write it. And I started writing it when I was pregnant with John. That’s how I can always remember our start date of the company, 1988.

’cause [00:09:00] it was the same year that John was born and now he’s president of the company. 

So I really just started with the manual and I knew nothing about going to. Trade shows and I thought I have a relative in Michigan, it looks like they have this dental trade show. I could stay with them.

I can get my booth set up. I get there with my 300 page manual and I looked around and other people had signage. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): You have a manual. They had drags 

Rose Nierman: and I just would at this table with this manual. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Wow. And yeah. Did people approach you? 

Rose Nierman: Oh yeah. It was a slow weekend. There was, football games.

Okay. Michigan State, we playing or something. And finally at the very end, these two dentists came up. They didn’t know each other, came up together and they go, this is what I’ve been looking for. Really? This is amazing. And like I say, this was, 1990 and they said, is this on computer discount?

That’s how we used to talk. Sure. Because it would come in the [00:10:00] loppy dis, please insert disc one. Please insert disc. It turns out my brother-in-law stopped by the booth. He’s a computer programmer. And he goes, yes, 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): okay. 

Rose Nierman: And it turns out those two dentists became my dear friends and really helped with the que, questions. Do clients too ask the patient? Oh, yes. Okay. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Wow. 

Rose Nierman: The questions you ask the patient Oh, nice. And the whole exam process. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): So you got a couple dentists on your side then, 

Rose Nierman: right? ’cause it the concept of the dental writer is. You can now, you can electronically send the questionnaire the patient, right about all their symptoms and they’re not dental symptoms, they’re medical symptoms.

And then when the dentist does the exam, he or she’ll call out the findings to the assistant and it just magically writes this narrative report of medical necess. They don’t, dentists don’t know how to do that. They’re very, they’re gonna use dental words and Right. Think teeth and occlusion and, Xi some, but this is more about symptoms, [00:11:00] whether it’s headaches or.

Insomnia or having ethnic events or excessive daytime sleepiness. That’s the type of thing. So then you’ve got your questionnaire, your exam generates that narrative so you can get paid. And then we bill for them right through this. They can pull it, ask us to bill, and they can all 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): be done through, like now it’s the dental writer, right?

Program. The dental writer. 

Rose Nierman: Yes. I love it. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Yeah, I love it. And squad, we’re gonna come back and talk a little bit more about the Dental Writer program and also like how dentists are leaving money on the table by not bridging that gap between dental and medical. So Steve Austin of my awesome sponsor from Rise Mortgage, take it away with the market update.

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L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Hey, it’s Steve. Thank you so much. One, we’re blessed that you to sponsor the show and also for the market update, which.

After our discussion this morning, things are looking a little bit brighter there with rates and stuff. So again, thank you very much. Rose many practices leave medical billing money on the table out of fear, probably a lot from confusion, correct? ‘Cause they’re right. So what’s the risk? What’s your kind of yours or now John’s like pitch to them if you will.

Like a risk of staying comfortable instead of maybe getting, taking that leap and trying to bridge that gap. 

Rose Nierman: I think the big risk, the doctors dentist may be interested in doing this, but the biggest risk in not getting it going is if they don’t get their team, the dental team involved.

Okay. That’s really makes all the difference in the world. It’s team driven. They’re the ones. Talking to the patients [00:14:00] about it, saying, we’ve been attending these courses about, sleep apnea, we do these appliances now, or do you get headaches? So having the team on board, I think is the biggest factor.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): And also having your hygienist and stuff like that, trained to listen for like popping of the jaw. Absolutely. Stuff like that. Or maybe swollen glands that they might think. ‘Cause they’re, dentists aren’t really used to diagnose like sleep apnea. They’re not known for that.

But they can have a high probability that then they can refer to a doctor. 

Rose Nierman: But they will refer the doctor many times for the sleep study. Okay. For to physician. Yeah. I’ve had a few 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): of those. And then the physician 

Rose Nierman: refers, makes the diagnosis for the sleep study and then the dentist does the oral appliance therapy.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Gotcha. And I never used the word kickback or anything, but there’s obviously some kind of. Money that can be made for dentists. With this, right? By the referral? 

Rose Nierman: Oh to medical. Absolutely. Okay. The more physicians they connect with. That’s gonna make a huge difference [00:15:00] because so many physicians have patients who have sleep apnea.

And they’re not being treated or the CP a’s in the closet. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Yes. Yeah. 

Rose Nierman: And they need somewhere else to go if they’re not gonna wear their CPA. CP Pap p’s. Great. 

If they’re wearing it a 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): hundred percent. I remember when I first got mine, we had. It would plug into the phone line.

And the VA would call me and say, you haven’t been wearing your sleep machine. I would be like, oh, had idea, because you what I did, I get free medical the rest of my life, so yeah, I need to have that. They’re like, dude, you gotta use it. It’s 

Rose Nierman: got a little compliance chip in it. Yeah. And they know what you’re doing there.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): The dental hygienist, the dentist out there, rose, is someone that you really need to meet if you’re not implementing that teamwork to, I’m not saying diagnose, but maybe see something that might. Help your patients. 

Quality of life, right? 

Rose Nierman: Absolutely. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): In speaking of that kind of sleep apnea, TMJ, they often get.

Minimize until they become serious. I, 

Rose Nierman: it’s true. So I would say that 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): from your perspective, like what’s at stake for patients if they don’t [00:16:00] have it treated? Obviously death, right? But what kind of hardships? Because I’m a testimonial that dude, I, one. I knew I needed to drop weight.

Yeah. But what’s at stake for them? Like with health risks? Are you seeing 

Rose Nierman: We are seeing actually dementia. There’s studies on that. Wow. And that ’cause 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): they’re not getting the oxygen. 

Rose Nierman: Yeah. That gets patients’ attention. Wow. High blood pressure, heart disease, gerd, all kinds of disorders that are related to it.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Okay, so how about these companies, and John might even be able to pop in ’cause he’s more on the kind the front lines here. You’re helping practices grow profitable and sustainable. What’s the biggest mistake dentists make when they try to scale too fast or without structure? Like they could do it on their own, but this dental writer will help them along.

Okay. So what do you see in the mistakes they’re making with their scaling? 

Jon Nierman: Yeah, actually, as Rose mentioned, I think not having their team trained they really need to get everybody on board. And one of the things that we recommend is for them [00:17:00] to create a separate vision statement for their sleep practice.

And, intentionally separate it from their dental practice because. They need a whole new mission. They’re not treating dental patients anymore. And that’s that shift from dental to medical. And it’s a mindset shift too. And they have to get not only themselves, but their whole team on board with that shift.

Once they do that, and they have, clear separate vision, purpose, and branding for that sleep. Then they can get everybody aligned in that. And we see a lot more success 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): from that starting point. So it’s really again, what you guys talk about team building communication between the teams, whatnot.

And that really goes with like even what I speak on stage about and whatnot about like really team building within. But this is so specific to where like the training, is there any kind of cross training that you see where a doctor might come into a dental and educate their hygienist or something like that.

Like what to look for or listen for. 

Rose Nierman: Do you see any of that? [00:18:00] We actually have doctors that are speaking our courses. Oh, wow. We also give courses, clinical courses for dentist on the treatment of sleep apnea and TMG. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Is it almost like a continuing education? Oh yeah. Wow. 

Rose Nierman: Yeah. It’s CE credit.

Oh, that’s great. And the, we have the sleep physicians come in and they have a always. In our courses they have a part of the course. Love it. Yeah. So it’s very good education. Then we have dentists who are doing a lot of this who teach the dentist and a lot of hands on. They get their, an appliance when they come to some of our courses.

The dentist themselves. And they take a sleep study. Oh, wow. They realize, oh my goodness, I haven’t, yeah, you can’t look at someone and Right. Say they have sleep apnea, 

Jon Nierman: absolutely. And so even bring sleep texts into, to talk about Oh, yeah. How to read the sleep studies.

Yeah. How to interpret, what are all those squiggly lines. Did you ever have Theresa de Nike in there? Yeah, we worked with her. She’s great and I’ve interviewed her on 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): my pod, yeah. Oh, awesome. [00:19:00] Yeah. Of the, out of the craziest stuff. She’s I know Nieman’s. Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s a small world.

She’s a small world, yeah. 

Jon Nierman: But she’s great. She’s a sleep coach and it’s just such a valuable, 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): she’s great. She’s changed my whole room, like we did a whole virtual thing. In my room and she’s move this here, black out this, and I sleep like a baby now. Like it’s, it really works.

Yeah. It makes a huge difference. Yeah. That’s what she does. 

Rose Nierman: And that’s a good point. ’cause I always tell Dennis, if the team’s not on board, treat your team or treat the team spouse because you may have a bad partner who’s snoring all night. Ooh. Leading to separate bedrooms and when they.

Patient gets treated, that’s huge. That’s gonna make a huge difference in their life. Yeah. Yeah. So I think if they can treat either the team member or someone in their family Yeah. Boy, that gets them on board. 

Jon Nierman: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it’s not just the health effects. With sleep apnea, you have those relationship effects too.

With Can’t sleep in the same room. Yeah. Over time. That’s gonna add up. I was a single man 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): when I had the Sleep AP [00:20:00] machine at the time, and they’re like, you’re bringing what over Old bag, here’s my thing. Its like, what? What’s going on? So the innovation that you guys are putting together in compliance with the healthcare environment and stuff, is it.

Are they trying to constantly change things on you? For you guys to have to keep up with it and Yes. Like how do you guys kinda keep up with that to make sure you’re staying compliant? 

Rose Nierman: The insurance companies change things almost on a daily basis. Like all of a sudden we, I was just looking at the chat with the medical billing team and we need a different cover letter now, or you can’t appeal it.

So they’re constantly changing. We do keep up with what the insurance companies are doing. We have someone assigned to just. Looking for any changes in the policying and calling them. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Gotcha. And real quick, shout out to Dr. Ani and also Dr. Ali. They’re dentists of mine. And they promised to listen to the show.

Wonderful. I told him, I give him a shout out and then they need to be visited by my good friends here. Probably John Neman, like Rose might be with her dog [00:21:00] at the beach ’cause she’s earned this time. And speaking of this though, with the. The, what is the toughest lesson being an entrepreneur’s taught you?

Rose Nierman: I would say that I was a person who, they say you can’t have it all. 

I feel like I did, I was able to raise a family. Yeah. You did. Two amazing kids, awesome kids. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Katie and John, they’re awesome. And started 

Rose Nierman: business. I was probably one of the first people to ever work from home, so I was home with the kids.

Wow. I was able to do that. There’s always going to be something that, affects the family. I think the travel wasn’t a lot. 

And it would just be Thursday through Sunday, every two weeks or something. Sure. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): But, 

Rose Nierman: I never miss birthdays or anything, but, there’s always going to be, downsides when you are trying to do it.

All 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): right. 

Rose Nierman: But I think I asked John, I said. Was that, did that mess you up? Me traveling and everything goes, no. He said it was really great to see. Yeah. You know how hard you were, 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): That the inspiration and whatnot. [00:22:00] And both you and your ex Jen’s father, they, he’s an entrepreneur as well.

So you like, didn’t you have restaurants or something like that? Yeah. So it’s like you. They’re surrounded by it. Yeah, he was 

Rose Nierman: Yeah. So 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): yeah, 

Rose Nierman: he had Bruce had a restaurant, he sold it recently and Very successful restaurant. Yeah. Up in the Jupiter area. So for 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Katie and John to be around that, they’re able to see that.

Entrepreneurism and the struggles and how that you just kept going. Yeah. When it did get tough, you adjusted. Yeah. You didn’t make excuses, you made adjustments. Absolutely. That’s what winners do and that’s beautiful. That’s 

Rose Nierman: what I would do. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): So what leadership trait in people I.

Do you admire the most? 

Rose Nierman: We hire not as much on skills, but on the values of the person. 

And that’s what we look for. Gotcha, gotcha. You can train someone who has good values and just as a really great person, that’s what we’re looking for. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Yeah. And that’s what John has, he’s I don’t know one person this earth, unless he’s strangling them on the Jiujitsu mat or [00:23:00] something, will say a bad thing about him.

Here’s my can question, which I ask pretty much everybody. Okay. But like, how does Rose want her dash remembered That little line in between your incarnation date and your expiration date, your life date and death date on your tombstone. Hopefully it’s way down the line, right? But how do you want that dash remembered?

What happened within that dash? Do you want remembered? 

Rose Nierman: No I do think about that a lot. Yeah. And I just I want my legacy to be that we helped. Dental practices help their patients? Yeah. As opposed to me working in one dental office, we’ve been able to help thousands of dentists and think of all the patients that got helped.

Either their, TMJ headaches or their sleep apnea. Yeah. That’s my legacy. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Love that. And being a great mom. 

Rose Nierman: I know that, that too. Yeah. 

That goes unsaid. Yes. So how can we find you? You can visit our website at neman pm. Dot com. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): It’s [00:24:00] N-I-E-M-N-I-E-R-M-A-N pm.com. It’s pm dos N-I-E-R-M-A-N pm.com.

Again, N-I-E-E-R-M-A n.com. And is your phone number still 800 And they can 

Rose Nierman: just Google Neman Practice Manager or Google. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): That’s what I just did to pull up your phone numbers. Is it? Yeah. Your toll free 808 7 9 6 4 6 8. That’s 

Rose Nierman: it. Yeah, they can call us. So they can go to the website and request a consultation as well.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Love it. 

Rose Nierman: The other website is dental rater.com, dental 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): raider.com. 

Rose Nierman: And then we have a third just a little small business called Snoring Isn’t Sexy, where patients can go and find the dentist. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Wow. So snoring isn’t sexy.com. Snoring ist sexy.com. Again, squad that phone number’s (800) 879-6468. It’s 808 7 9 6 4 6 8.

In the last 30 seconds that we’re talking, I want you to drop. Like a knowledge nugget that people can lean into, internalize to level up their life, something that they can really lean into out there. 

Rose Nierman: I would say that if you’re, having [00:25:00] any type of health difficulty that get it treated, there’s no tomorrow, don’t wait.

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): Love that. 

Rose Nierman: And go see your dentist and be open to the things that they’re doing beyond the teeth. 

L. Scott Ferguson (Coach Fergie): I love that. And Qua, this has been just legendary for me to have you and Ms. Rose. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you to my producer, Brian Mud and John Neman for popping in as well.

WJ, NO. Everybody. Have a great weekend.

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