I promise if you break out your notebook, you’ll have pages of notes as well. So, without further ado, here’s my really good friend Michael Wish us Marine. From Valley Legos [00:01:00] and self architect, let’s level up.

Coach Fergie: Hey, time to Shine today. Podcast Varsity Squad. Welcome back to another powerful edition of Time to Shine Today podcast. I’m your host, coach Fergie. Blessed to be your gap coach, specializing in peak performance mental conditioning, working with business leaders, entrepreneurs, entertainers, athletes, C-suite, and students to help them bridge their success gap.

To live a life of options and not obligations on this platform, we are stoked to bring you high performers. Who are not just chasing and attaining success, but redefining it through, providing above and beyond service. You always know that I drop a really quick coaching knowledge nugget on the front, and we’re gonna talk about, , chaos and clarity.

, Chaos shows up for free. You don’t have to ask for it. You don’t have to earn it. It’s there the second you wake up. Texts, emails, pressure, noise. Most people answer chaos with more chaos. They think that if they just run faster, shout louder, hustle harder, that I’ll run it. But here’s the truth.

Clarity is the antidote. Clarity is the discipline on paper, vision and practice. It’s saying, I know who I am. I know where I’m heading. And I know what [00:02:00] gets me my energy today. Chaos wants you scattered. Clarity makes you lethal. So don’t brag about how busy you are. Get clear on what actually matters.

That’s how you silence the noise. Own the day and live in purpose instead of panic and talk about living on purpose. And has a lot of clarity in some of the the chaos. Who, my guess I’m bringing on, thank you Shea Sparks for introducing me to, who’s now a really good friend of mine, Michael Wish.

He’s an educator, speaker, and coach who founded Valet Legos, a mentorship community built on science-based learning strategy. Strategies, coaching, accountability. His work helps high schoolers, college students and professionals alike master habits craft the vision and build the leadership skills to become the person they’re meant to be.

Michael’s not just talking theory, he’s a United States Marine Corps RAH officer, bringing discipline, clarity and service driven leadership into every room he steps into whether he is guiding students to sharpen their focus, or mentoring professionals who solve habits that stick. Michael’s about transformation, not just information.

He’s, he’s here to show us how to discover [00:03:00] identity, develop a plan, and put it into practice. So Varsity Squad, let’s buckle up, buckle in ’cause Michael’s about to drop some masterclass and focus, clarity, leadership and living with purpose. And Michael, thank you so much for coming on. Please introduce yourself to the time to Shine today, podcast Varsity Squad.

But first, what’s your favorite color and why?

Michael Wish: Green and ’cause. I don’t know. I just remember green being my favorite color from when I was a kid. So it’s like a

Coach Fergie: rebirth man, ? Yeah, right. It’s like when you’re in the military, like, , my fellow veteran here, , it is like when you kind of get out like a rebirth time, ’cause you’re kind of coming up on that time, right?

Because you’re still in while you’re, , flexing your hustle muscle and building a side business here that’s exploded, right? Yeah. So, , how about the core? , what, what’s the one lesson that you’ve learned in the core that still shapes how you show up every day?

Michael Wish: Well, I mean, you talked about chaos and clarity earlier.

Yeah, and I like it. I can’t help but be attracted to that concept of there’s this perfect amount of chaos actually, that you can thrive in. You’re a hundred [00:04:00] percent right, that you’re lethal with clarity. Yeah. And you have to remove out the. The noise, you have to remove out the chaos. That’s not helping.

But I’ve noticed time and time again that I am the most focused and I am working at peak efficiency when I have just the right amount of chaos. And the Marine Corps taught me how to thrive in that environment and find that environment.

Coach Fergie: Right? Yes. And it’s almost like they don’t just, they don’t just, like a lot of people think, they just throw us in to a battle.

Like we’re trained, we’re, we’re ready to. Do the deed right. In those hard target situations if we have to. But , ve veli Lagos, which I’m super, super interested in this, , it’s, could you explain, if you were at, if you and I were an elevator, you kind of lack of a better term, pitched it to me or at a coffee shop, , how would you describe it?

’cause it’s a unique name and I know it’s a play on your last name, right? Yeah, yeah. And there’s some people out there that might catch that. Right. But I think it’s super unique. So how would you kind of explain that to me?

Michael Wish: First you’d have to be an incredible [00:05:00] nerd. ’cause it’s, it’s both Greek and Latin mixed together.

So it’s, it’s, it’s a desire for, it’s a wish for the truth. My last name being, wish it’s a wish or a desire for the truth. That’s awesome. Yeah, right. So , I, I love the name a lot of pe , it confuses folks, so I mostly just refer to my system, the self architect system, which is what I coach.

Love that. But , the, the, the point here is I, I read years ago, and I know probably a lot of people have they read the book Atomic Habits, right, by James Clear? Yeah. James,

Coach Fergie: right. Absolutely. It’s a

Michael Wish: massive book. Probably top three. It’s gotta be. But my chief complaint from that book is, it doesn’t tell you what habits to follow.

It does It’s right. , So your, your, your system of implementing habits is, is insanely important. But it doesn’t say, where do I start and how do I figure out which habits are the best habits to actually implement my life? And so for me, that started me on a journey of, okay, which ones should they be, right?

So I went down a massive rabbit hole to figure out. Like, what are the keystone habits that you should have in your life that are gonna make massive impacts? Wow. Right, right. Across different domains, whether spiritual, [00:06:00] academic, physical. Right. And then also have like the, the, the biggest elasticity, it’s a term I borrow from economics, which basically says, what’s the minimum I can put in and the most I can get out?

Right. Right. That’s what we’re after. Right. Efficiency, so. We went, I went down the rabbit hole. I figured those out. And then I also realized that every person is different. And you can, you can put those keystone habits in your life, but you also need to figure out who the hell you want to be, right?

Whether, the classic joke is, who do you wanna be when you grow up? Right? And just to illustrate that, I went, I went to a buddy’s house the other night. We played a board game. Really good dude. It was a very complicated board game, and I’d never played it before. And , he, do you remember what it

Coach Fergie: was?

Michael Wish: I, I I will have to ask him. Got it, got it. Kind of sci-fi. It might’ve been a dune. Like a dune? Mm. I think it was Dune actually. Okay. I don’t remember the actual name of it, but that was the theme. And, , guy was a decent communicator. Like he, he knew the rules, but it frustrated me because the very first thing I wanted to know was what?

How do I win? Right? What’s the end? What’s [00:07:00] the end state? How do I, what, what, what, what objective am I trying to achieve there? Right? So like, you wanna do that first and then backtrack and figure out all the stuff in between. And , it took him like 15 minutes before he finally told me how you win the game, right?

Right. You need that. You need that context if you’re gonna sit down and build a system for your life. Sure. And you gotta figure out what’s the end, what’s the end game look like? What’s the vision of yourself 10, 20 years from now?

Coach Fergie: It begin with the end of mine, right. Stephen Coby. That’s right. Like number four of the Seven Habits of probably Successful People.

No, James did that and that, it’s funny, we were at I was out with a bunch of speakers and he was one of ’em, and someone kind of brought that up to him, like, what habits should I go with, bro? , They said to him and it just became kind of a joke at the table. And, and I love that you say habits and you, you hear that squad, , know your habits that you’re going after.

Like again, goals are nothing but byproducts or your standards. And standards are what your habits are. They get it done to hit your, to hit your goals. Okay. So with with Michael, like you talk about turning potential into performance. Right. What’s [00:08:00] the biggest shift people. Are you seeing people are lacking in their need to start leaning into with, within those habits to, , bridge that gap?

Michael Wish: So let’s start with, let’s start with mindset. Love it. And the, the mindset I think is most important, and the one that I see people struggle with the most is the, is reframing what you think of as success in failure. Most people think of success in failure on a capability front. Like an innate ability front, right?

Or as some. Definitive statement about future ability? Sure. Right. So most people think, well, successful people always have the ability to be successful, right? They always, they were always smart. They were all, they were born with great genetics. Like that’s the innate capability piece. Or the other version of that is it’s a statement about your future ability.

Like if you, if you are successful, you will continue to be successful. If you are, if you, if you fail, you’ll continue to fail. And those are both, not just wrong, [00:09:00] but 180 out. From the right way to frame it and the right way to frame it for me is on a learning front. I’ve spent most of my life teaching in various aspects, and it’s on a learning front, right?

Success to me means that it’s a statement about the past. It just tells, it tells me that you learned something in the past and that’s why you’re achieving success now. And if you’re failing, it just means you’re learning right now. That’s the only difference. Yes. That framing right there. When you, when you, when you get into performance, right?

When you have that mind, and I’m not saying it’s easy, I’m not claiming that in the moment of failure, you’re be like, oh, no big deal. I’m just learning. But if you approach it with that mindset, you’re totally unstoppable because now performance is not a measure. Success. It’s a measure of learning. How much have I learned kicked out?

Right. And when you fail at, , for the kids I work with, if they fail an exam or the, , the adults I work with, they didn’t hit it at work. Mm. Okay. The, the step number one is it’s not a failure. It was a learning moment. What did we learn about it on that day, on that [00:10:00] exam, on that subject? You didn’t know what you needed to know.

We just need to get back and figure out why, and we need to re-attack. And I find that people, when they, when they have that frame set in mind that they’re far more capable than, than they otherwise would be.

Coach Fergie: I love that because you’re keeping ’em in the moment you’re keeping ’em in knowing that in the future, what you’re gonna pick up today is gonna make you successful.

That’s right. Right, exactly. So if you, you’re just learning it now, even though you could have learned it, , a couple months ago when you were supposed to, right? That’s right. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. , From your perspective then, , why do so many students, professionals, , struggle with clarity of purpose then, , and how, and what do you do at Self Architect avail Lagos to help them kind of find that?

Michael Wish: Well, you on the student perspective, it’s ’cause all the, in Senate, all the incentives are built. Incorrectly. Right. So unfortunately in, in most academic environments, right, right, right. All the incentives are built mm-hmm. To, to, to incentivize, cramming to incentivize, big [00:11:00] tests huge points of, , huge points of fail.

You can’t afford to fail a final exam. Right. I mean, that’s. So these, you have these huge inflection points that are built into that process. And, and , we’re not here to solve that problem today, but I think we treat that. I think we treat our entire lives like that, right? Because we grow up in this, in the school system, in the school environment in which we cram and we cram and we cram, and then we test that.

We treat the rest of our lives like that too. And in no other domain do we behave that way. Right? I don’t go to the gym and one rep Max 10, you know what I mean? Right. Every single day. In fact, I never won Rep Max. Right now I’m 40 now, so that’s, .

Coach Fergie: Yeah. , I get it.

Michael Wish: What do you do? You go in and you add a little bit of weight.

Yep. Over a long period of time, you build that structure, you build the base. Right, right. Little failures. In fact, the intent of the gym is to fail.

Coach Fergie: Fail a hundred percent

Michael Wish: fail in an easy way and hundred percent easy environment. That’s right. Yeah. So I’m gonna go and I’m gonna have little failures every, every day for weeks on end and months on [00:12:00] end.

Right. And through that process, you grow stronger. Right.

Coach Fergie: I love that. Like the fail, but like. The greatest running back ever to play the game. Barry Sanders, right? He failed forward. Right. He lost a lot of yards. That’s right. But he always failed forward. Right, right. So your, your approach though is rooted kind of aca in academics, like science-based learning strategies.

Right? Yeah. , Can you break down one that listeners could start using today that could help them retain more and alleviate some of their stress? A

Michael Wish: hundred percent. The, the, the one I see the most is, is cramming. Right? And so the, just give you an example real quick. I’m

Coach Fergie: gonna interject. Yeah. I love what you just said right there, and I’m gonna let you go on forever, but I gotta talk to the squad here.

Like, squad cramming is, again, goes back to what he talked about with success, right? Success means you’ve learned it. When you should have learned it. Crammy means you’re learning it now, right? I go, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael Wish: Or you’re trying to learn it now. Yes. You’re trying to, to get it done. Right.

Coach Fergie: Right.

Michael Wish: So , the, the way I like the story, my favorite [00:13:00] story that really I think elucidates this point the best, is we’ve all been at a party or a social engagement of some sort.

And you shake someone’s hand and they say their name. Five seconds later it is gone. Right. It is not ever existed in your brain and in, in those social moments, it’s, , it’s really awkward to have to admit that you forgot, even though we all do it right. It’s a totally normal human experience. Right.

You rack your brain for it because you, you desperately wanna avoid the awkwardness of having to, to, to ask again. Right? Now, here’s the, the key point to this is it actually doesn’t remember, it doesn’t matter if you remember the name or not. The act of desperately trying to remember it is the work that you go through that your brain goes through to, to pull information from short-term to long-term memory.

Wow. Your brain has to know that something’s important. You can’t afford to remember absolutely everything that you see. Your brain is a very efficient organ and it forgets most things on purpose. ’cause you can’t handle it. Right? Right. So you have to give it the right signals and the signal is work and effort.

It has to be difficult. And [00:14:00] even if you turn around and say, I’m, I’m terribly sorry, this is. Horrifically embarrassing. I totally forgot your name. Right. And then they tell you the name the second time, you’re probably never gonna forget it. Right. Not because they told you twice. Right. ’cause you tried to go through the effort and the work of remembering it.

Right? Well, what doesn’t help is sitting there going, John, John, John. John. John. John. John. Why? ’cause you did zero work between each statement, right? Right. Right. And so this is counterintuitive because it’s really frustrating, but as soon as you start to get something, you have to stop. You have to stop.

You have to take a break. You have to start to forget it, right? And then you have to go through the hard, tough, mental work. I’m trying to remember what the hell it is that you’re trying to, trying to commit to memory, right? Even whether you’re successful or not that work is what’s gonna get things to stick.

And so, , cramming is, is really totally antithetical to that. You’re just repeating the same thing over and over and you’re not actually moving it to long-term memory.

Coach Fergie: So, self architect of Valley Lagos, do you really kinda go into some organizational skills, set standards for organization of time management [00:15:00] to make sure that you are sending the time so you’re not cramming.

Michael Wish: Yeah, the best thing that, that you can possibly do is, is build a schedule, a by minute schedule. So whether, and this is, this doesn’t just apply to students, and that’s why I think a lot of. Adults, frankly, have been really have started to be drawn towards the program because this applies to everybody.

I mean, you’re, everybody needs to be a lifelong learner. Everyone needs to have a growth mindset. Thank you, Kaiser. Right? And whether it’s a new job, whether it’s trying to learn ai, whatever it is that you’re trying to do, you are learning constantly. You’re learning about the gym, you’re learning about your what, your spouse, your kids.

Okay? And if you really want to, if you really want to. Remember and understand and increase that retention, then you’ve gotta block it off on the calendar. It’s gotta be dedicated like anything else. Right? Right. Just you were a student, you had a little planner and you said, study math for 30 minutes, study Spanish for 30 minutes, whatever.

Why aren’t you doing that as an adult? Right, right. Put it on the calendar and the key is you wanna block off the appropriate amount of time, and my general recommendation is no more than 20 to 30 minutes on a single topic. Is that because of retention? It’s because of retention. [00:16:00] Now, a lot of students or, or, and adults, a lot of folks will complain and they’ll say, well, I don’t have time to take huge breaks.

And that’s okay. That actually leads right into another method, which is called Inner Leaving Interleaving is where you take a break from one subject and you go to another subject. Okay. And now you are taking a rest and you are starting to forget the first subject while you start to set work on the second.

And so you can stack them. That’s weaving,

Coach Fergie: like weaving, that’s right.

Michael Wish: 20, yeah. Interleaving. Yeah, interleaving.

Coach Fergie: Interleaving. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

Michael Wish: 20 minutes on, on one, 20 minutes on another. And then back and forth and back and forth or three subjects or whatever it is.

Coach Fergie: Sure. It’s kinda like a circuit workout, taking it back to the gym.

Right. Exactly what it is. You gotta give the chest, get little chest, maybe little shoulders hip to

Michael Wish: rest while you go do some shoulders back to chest.

Coach Fergie: Right. You’re super setting and then you’re seeing that interleaving is, makes it the stuff retain a little bit better. Correct.

Michael Wish: Well, and the problem is, I gotta give a warning, it doesn’t feel like it, and this is the biggest hump to get over.

It feels very inefficient while you’re going through it because you’re constantly forgetting crap and you’re like right. Dude, this isn’t working. Right. Right. But [00:17:00] watch it after a week or two. What? And, and, and. Folks have done this. You can look at plenty of studies when you have someone that interleaves or have someone that does space practice, and you compare that to the folks that cram they blow ’em outta the water on exams.

Right, right. The folks that interleave and, and, and space their practice. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.

Coach Fergie: It’s like your brain’s consistently cataloging, right? It’s like, it’s saying, it’s like a, wait a minute, you’re kind of tricked it a little bit by going from science to math. To English and then back to science and be like, wait a minute, it’s, it’s cataloging and pulling stuff forward to the frontal cortex or something like that.

I’ll make up something there. What I’m saying? It’s like doing that and, and, and so that’s why a lot of. Working with a lot of my, whether professional athletes or a domestic engineer, a housewife, house husband at home. , , I put things in forms of questions, right? Like a lot of people want affirmations.

, I, but if you ask yourself a question, our brains are programmed to problem solve. So if you take one of your affirmations, put it into a question to yourself, that really starts to activate the reticular activating system. And whatnot, and it [00:18:00] just kind of like catalogs that there, and that’s where you start actually living it out.

Where I love what you’re, you’re learning the science behind it is that you’re interleaving from subject to subject to subject in your brain. Again, I keep on saying cataloging, but that’s all I’m picturing right now. It’s like science is here and then it’s, it’s put in the back, but then you bring it back to the front and it just consistently moves.

Am I kind of on the right track? Yeah. I mean, I, .

Michael Wish: Yes. Your brain

Coach Fergie: does count. Correct me, man, I, I I want these people to hear the real thing.

Michael Wish: Yeah. I, I think the real, the real squeeze that you get outta this juice is that you study science for, for 20 minutes and it’s in the science part of your brain, and then you go study English for 20 minutes, and that’s in a different part.

And the, the real work happens when you go back to the science part and you, you ask the question, you say, what were we studying earlier? And your brain’s like, I have no idea, brother. Like what I, are you serious? Yeah. And you go, no, no, no. That was really important. Like this category, this science thing is, is important to me and I wanna know about it.

And it’s like, [00:19:00] alright, fine. I remember two of the seven things. Right? And so you, you, you put yourself in that position of having to struggle to remember for a few minutes before you go back to the notes, before you go back to the problem that you were working on. Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s the same at work.

It’s the same with your family, , whatever it happens to be.

Coach Fergie: Right. So yeah. Love. Yeah, just making it, it, it does stick and it’s. Do you find that your, your clients or students or whatnot are like, for lack of a better term, dumbfounded, like, wow, I actually remembered it. It like came forward and, , when they were maybe testing or, , they had to come up with an answer to something.

Are you, are you seeing a lot of that?

Michael Wish: Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Now, one of the problems that I do see is that people cram immediately before an exam, and that actually can help. Right? So Sure. There’s with every, yeah. With ev with every one of these, there’s always a caveat, and the caveat is if you cram hard an hour or two right before an exam, your head will be filled with facts that you’ll be able to recall on that exam.

Absolutely. The issue is, is as soon as that’s over. Most of it’s gone,

Coach Fergie: gone.

Michael Wish: So later on the second exam [00:20:00] on new material, but depends on the previous material. They’re not remembering it. Right. Right. They got, they ’cause they crammed. Right,

Coach Fergie: right.

Michael Wish: So the, the real aha moment for a lot of the folks I work with comes a few weeks, a couple months down the road.

For the students it’s on midterms or finals, , for adults it’s, it’s just, it’s whatever it happens to trigger it Right. Is holy cow. I remember the thing that we talked about three months ago, like, I don’t normally remember things that happened three months ago. Right, right.

Coach Fergie: There’s emotion that is super attached to it as well.

’cause a lot of people were remembered stuff when they have emotion attached to it. At least I know in my world, in the coaching world, , there’s emotion that is attached to their stuff that they need to like, recall and bring forward. A

Michael Wish: hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. That’s why when I’m teaching, I’m always making jokes.

Yeah. The, the emotion I like to attach is happiness and laughter. Right. Yeah. Humor.

Coach Fergie: Yeah. Absolutely. I make stupid

Michael Wish: analogies self-deprecating jokes, and it, it really pulls people in and they tend to remember, I think things a little bit better, but you can absolutely do that to yourself. Absolutely.

Intentionally. Yeah. You

Coach Fergie: do [00:21:00] emphasize mentorship and accountability a lot. In everything that I kind of went through, listened to. Watch when we were kind of like, for, we were vetting you out. Right. , Even the past, our conversation that we had. So in your experience, , what role does accountability truly play in sustaining growth?

Michael Wish: Accountability plays the, well, lemme tell you a story about, and, and maybe anybody, I know you have some military listeners, but if, if, , if you’re not in the military, it’s okay. You can. Map this onto your own life? I think pretty easily, but we’ve all seen someone in an environment that we didn’t think they were gonna succeed.

We didn’t think they had it in them. Sure. And then when they, they reached the, the, the metal, when it, when it was time to actually test them, suddenly they performed. Not out of nowhere, but it seemed, it seemed incongruous with your expectations. And in the military you see that a lot in training when.

Folks are not in charge of anybody. You’re in basic training. You are only responsible for yourself, right? Right. Or you’re at the, the Naval Academy. That’s where I went to school. [00:22:00] And you’re not in charge of anybody. You’re not responsible for anybody. And then suddenly after you, , you graduate, you, if you’re enlisted, you become an NCO.

If you’re an officer, you commission and suddenly you’re in charge of people and you’re accountable to them as a leader. And a lot more people step up than we realize. Mm-hmm. Not everybody, right. Especially if it’s a character. Flaws something deep, but Right. A lot more people step up because, and here’s why they feel.

We are, we are so fast to let ourselves down, Scott. We will let ourselves down in a heartbeat. If I go on a diet today and I see an Oreo on the counter, I’m done. I’m eating the Oreo ’cause it’s, it’s just ah, it’s just me. Right? Right. But if you call me and you say, Mike, I’m trying to go on a diet, man, this is really important to me and I need your help and I want you to do it with me.

Dude, I’m not eating that Oreo. I’m not letting you down. Right. Hundred

Coach Fergie: percent, dude. Yeah, but we’re

Michael Wish: social creatures. We’re social animals. And on the accountability side, if you’re trying to change your life, help help someone else change theirs. [00:23:00] Love to say, because say that you’re going to just force yourself to set the example in a way that you never would if it was just you and, and you’re on your own.

It’s not so true. So it’s not just a partner piece, it’s a leadership.

Coach Fergie: When, when I got into trail running, right, it was like I could barely run 20 feet, like the length of the, the width of my house. And I was like, I will get up every morning, run a mile. Right. And I, I reached out to certain people that I knew would hold me accountable and then we ended up being like 390 days straight, did a 10 K trail run.

And now I’m like every weekend trail running. Right. But it started with that account accountability. If I didn’t have Stevie or anybody else, I hit up on the Strava app, , that was online. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I’m saying? Like, people like holding me accountable to it. That that’s beautiful.

That And so accountability, approaching somebody with the accountability. Are you talking. Should people really go to friends or family or someone that has your best interest in mind? Or like, when you want people, , find their accountability partner. ’cause that’s what I am basically as a coach because by 9:00 AM your time I bus get my protocol, [00:24:00] my three things you’re grateful for, your intention for the day, your active service you did yesterday, something you learned yesterday, like it’s, it goes on and on.

I build that up to, to fire off the reticular activating system with the RAS. Right? So what kind of person really. Should you find that’s gonna hold you accountable?

Michael Wish: I don’t think it matters, actually. So, yeah, of course. Friends and family, are they the easiest people to ask? Yes. Right. But I think perfect strangers are also in a lot of cases.

Thank you for saying that,

Coach Fergie: brother.

Michael Wish: Dude. Much easier. Yes. Much easier to work with. Yes. Because if it, yeah, if it’s somebody and love, like you feel guilty or you feel judged and there’s like, there’s all this stuff, , and if it’s your spouse, that’s a whole other layer of challenge that you

Coach Fergie: try.

Right? You almost respect. Somebody else more than you do your family in a sense, right? Like if you were to come over with your, we get

Michael Wish: consistent with our friends and family sometimes.

Coach Fergie: Yes, with you. Come over to my house with your wife, right? Come knock on my door. I’m gonna get off my butt. Open the door.

Be like, Hey, what’s going on, [00:25:00] Michael? Hey, nice to meet you. Heard a lot about you. You guys want a glass of wine, A beer soda or something, right? But if you were to come over. By yourself. Knock on the door. Who is it? It’s wish it’s open. You come in, you got a beer. Exactly. Where it’s at. I trust you.

I don’t respect you enough. So going to that stranger sometimes. I love that you said that can hold it even more accountable. And I found that on the STR app. Right. You know what I’m saying? It’s crazy. Is like, I was like, that’s what I want. People will be like, yo, it’s six 30, is your run done? Yeah. Right.

, So, love that you said that. There’s

Michael Wish: two, i I think there’s two maybe pieces of evidence that point to this. The, the first is that’s why people like therapists, right? Like I, and, and I mean, let’s be honest, if you’re in a relationship. And you’ve never talked to a therapist, you should try it sometime.

Right? Right. Not because you have huge problems. Not, not because you’re not a good person, but for some reason, like it’s just so easy when it is just you and your spouse say, to get in an argument, to let emotions, to let past transgressions just enter that. Yes. Right. With abandon. But the therapist there blocks that you go, Oop, I [00:26:00] have to be an adult.

Right. I don’t wanna embarrass myself in front of this stranger, and suddenly the conversation is leveled.

Coach Fergie: Yes.

Michael Wish: You know what I mean? I think that’s, there’s that respect for

Coach Fergie: that third party.

Michael Wish: It’s right. I think that’s why podcasts are blowing up and inter and one-on-one long form. Interviews are blowing up because the audience functions as a third party to check the conversation.

Right? That’s

Coach Fergie: what, and that’s why communities, online,

Michael Wish: communities are blowing up too. Right?

Coach Fergie: Love it. Which we’re gonna get to Michael’s online communities here in just a little bit, but , when someone says that they’re feeling stuck right, or they’re falling short, what’s the very first question you ask them to unlock that movement?

Michael Wish: The very first question when someone like, how do you

Coach Fergie: handle that man? You know what, Michael? I’m stuck, dude. , Like, , is there anything that, like a magic question or something that you kinda go to that kinda unstick him a little bit?

Michael Wish: So let just set it up with a little bit of context. Sure.

I worked with a young, young lady who was feeling that way. She was incredibly. [00:27:00] Accomplished high school student trying to get into an Ivy League school, like just a thousand times better human than I was at the same age. Right. And she felt the exact same way because she was involved in 30 different activities.

, She patting the resume to look as good as she could to get in an Ivy League school. She’s studying a lot of subjects, many of which she didn’t care. And I remember we were sitting down working. Together. And she just, I could tell she wasn’t paying attention. I was tutoring. This wasn’t the coaching, , we were just working on math and she just wasn’t, wasn’t answering questions.

She wasn’t there. She wasn’t with it. And so I said, all right, it’s time to put the math away. , It’s time to tell me what’s going on. And she expressed exactly that issue. And I feel stuck. I feel like I’m on a treadmill, , nothing’s going on. And we had to step back and take a look at how.

Insane her life was and how accomplished she was. And I thought, how amazing is it that you’re on this plateau that millions of people would look at and think, God, you’re crushing it. Yeah. And you’re thinking, God, I feel right. I feel stuck. I feel bored. [00:28:00] Right, right. , I feel in a rat race. So if I think that maybe my first question is, , let, let’s step back and gain some perspective about where you are and what you’re doing.

Right. Whether you’re on a plateau or whether you’re in a valley. Right, right. My second question is , what are we, what, what are we gonna do about it? And it’s not just a matter of making a change in our life, sure. But it’s a matter of having the perspective. Of figuring out what’s causing that feeling right, and not being afraid to get after it.

And then either adding something or subtracting from your life that’s, that’s actually gonna make a meaningful difference. And for her it was, it was getting rid of the activities that were not bringing her joy. Right? So she was involved in all these different organizations. We went through one by one.

It was like, okay, you do a study hall three times a week for two hours. Does that bringing joy in your life? No, it’s not. Is that helping your resume really? No, it’s not. Okay. Kick it out. Right, right. Are you doing this? Are you doing that? Are you, she wasn’t working out at all. ’cause that wasn’t on the, the Harvard application as your runtime, you know?

Right, right, [00:29:00] right. We just made, , we went through, we made a few small changes. I mean, not big changes at all. We dropped a few things she didn’t like. We added a couple of things and we went by a week, two, three weeks later. And I mean, her whole attitude, her whole. Frame of mind was just different.

That’s awesome. SO’S one perspective and two, those elastic changes. Little change. Yes. Big effect, right? Yeah. You don’t have to turn your life around.

Coach Fergie: I love that. He’ll change.

Michael Wish: Big effect. Yeah. And,

Coach Fergie: and, and squat out there. Did you hear what he just did? He didn’t just go in and consult her, right? He asked the powerful question.

He turned on his curiosity and he gave the power to the client. The client answered the question through a, , powerful, like, a lot of people will just start to go out and say, do this, do this, do this. Then there’s, there’s no emotion attached to it, right? So Michael gave his client the power to make the decision and next thing , she understands how many dubs and my listeners out there, , stacking those dubs that she’s already stacked, right?

That’s right. Yeah. So that, that’s amazing, Michael, so [00:30:00] lemme ask you something like, have you seen the movie Back to the Future? Oh yeah. Okay. That it’s 40 years old this year. It’s crazy. Right? So Mike came out the year you were born, , it did 85, right? So, yep, that’s right. Year. I was, man, I’m old. I was, I was, I was thir.

I was, I was 13th at the time. Anyways, so let’s go back and let’s get in that, that Delore with Marty McFly. Let’s go back to the double deuce, the 22-year-old Michael. What kind of knowledge nuggets might you drop on him? Not to change anything, right? ’cause your life has been pretty solid, but to maybe shorten a learning curve or blast through maybe a little quicker.

Michael Wish: Yeah, so I’d give, I’d give that guy two pieces of advice, which are my, my two principle values. Now, outside of the ethical and moral domain, the first is to be aggressively curious, be aggressively curious about everything, right? I can’t, , whether you’re sitting in a math class in school, whether you’re sitting in a boardroom at work whether you’re listening to your family tell you about their day.

Too many people are lost on the phone. [00:31:00] Too many people are lost in their own thoughts. And we can talk about mindfulness in different ways and , and all the issues there, but just forget all that. Just be aggressively curious about what’s going on. Love.

Coach Fergie: Yeah.

Michael Wish: Number two is to experiment joyfully.

And this ties back to failure, which we talked about earlier. Yeah. Like you are going to fail, learn to enjoy it. Yes. Go experiment. Go figure out what you’re capable of. Try to run the mile every day for 390 days. Yep. And if you fail on day 13, cool. You ran 13 miles. Exactly right. Exactly. Yep. No experiment joyfully and right.

Treat every failure point like a data point. Okay. On that day. With that mindset, with those shoes, I wasn’t able to get out and run. Right, right, right, right. So I’m gonna fix my mindset. I’m gonna get new shoes, I’m gonna lose the excuses, and next time I’m exactly gonna get to 14.

Coach Fergie: Yeah.

Michael Wish: So those, those are the two values that I wish I had.

I think I had them, but I was maybe too emotional, too young too immature to really, fully, no, you get

Coach Fergie: it. You think you [00:32:00] know, but you don’t. And I, I was the exact same way, man. I, I, the kinda mentor tell me, he is like, she’s like, listen, get your As in gear. Like, listen, ask. Ask, ask, ask. Yeah. And that’s what I did.

Like that’s my superpower. That’s how I got into coaching. Yeah. This is because I don’t consult like. , I blessed a coach. Che Harlow is a billionaire, right? I, he’s forgot more about business and hedge funding and Oliver know, but my superpower is curiosity. And there’s that gap Yes. That he just needs to bridge.

I can’t

Michael Wish: tell you how many times, and I don’t mean this arrogantly, but someone will say like, oh, Mike, you’re really smart guy. And it’s like, guys, I’m, I’ve joined the Marine Corps. I’m not that smart. Okay. Asked, asked you Mustang,

Coach Fergie: didn’t you? Did you Mustang? I did, yeah. I was enlisted first. Yeah. So squad, what that means is he was enlisted, he was a grunt.

Before he got, , his commission. So, which now I’d have to actually salute him. , Which I have no problem doing. But that, that’s, that’s just amazing. So how does Michael then want his dash remembered that little line in between your incarnation date, your expiration date, your life date, and your death date.

[00:33:00] Hopefully it’s way down the line. But on that tombstone, how does Michael want his dash? Remember?

Michael Wish: I think that it’s, that’s that I chose to live a life of, of purpose for other people. I think it’s that I chose to live a life of, of purpose, driven to serve those that serve love. That yeah, Simon Sinek talks about serving those that serve and, I think that’s a really, that’s a really powerful message for me, and I think that’s probably why I included that in my, in my course.

Sure. At the end is that you have a responsibility to teach coach and mentor the other people around

Coach Fergie: you. Of course. Yes. Absolutely. And do , do what you love in the service of other people that love what you do. Meaning like, , like people know, like, I know I love coaching. It’s, it’s awesome.

I’m blessed to have built it to what I have, but other people that watch me. See that I’m experimenting joyfully like you told, like you just said. Right. [00:34:00] It’s like every day is kind of a fun experiment for me. Now, that’s one thing about coaching. You’re never wearing the same hat, right? Yeah. When you’re talking, so everybody has different backgrounds.

So then what is Michael’s definition of a life well lived?

Michael Wish: Yeah. I mean if, if you, if I’m sitting there on my deathbed, right? Yeah. It would be to, to be surrounded by friends and family. Who knew that I cared about them and lived my life for other people. Yeah. Right. I mean that’s, , that’s, I think that’s the, that’s the best thing that you can ask for.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because that I cared about making them laugh, that I cared about helping them, that I cared about teaching them that I was there when they needed me. I think, I think that’s it, right? I, I don’t think there’s any better life lived than that

Coach Fergie: there. You’re a hundred percent correct and, , it’s.

Living like success if you went back. Success to me is kinda like living a life of options and not obligations. Right. But the only way that I get there is if I plant so much service that I harvest [00:35:00] that. Yeah. Right. That’s the only way that I’ll get there. Okay. Hey, time to shine today. Podcast varsity squad. We are back. And Michael, we’ll definitely hook up live one time and we’ll probably talk about a few of these over a brain grenade or two, right?

For at in depth. But today you have five seconds with no explanations, and I promise you they can all be answered, answered that way. Are you ready to level up? I’m ready. I’m ready to level up. Awesome. Michael, what’s the best leveling up advice you’ve ever received? Experiment joyfully. Yes. Share one of your personal habits that contributes to your success.

I lift in the gym as much as I can. Love it. So you see me walking down the street or at an event? Yeah. Fergi looks like he’s in his doldrums. What one book was handed to you at one time that you read that literally shifted you

who not how, who, not how? Love it. Love it. Most commonly used emoji when you text. Rocket ship Rocket. Love it. Nicknames growing up. Mikey. Mikey. [00:36:00] Love it. So any hidden talent and or superpower that you have that nobody knows about until now? Ooh.

Michael Wish: I have a great jar, jar, Binks voice.

Coach Fergie: Love it. Love it. And that, that’s a Star Wars thing, right?

Yeah. Awesome. Love it. Love it. So chess checkers a monopoly.

Michael Wish: Monopoly every day

Coach Fergie: Headline for your life. Live with purpose. Serve others. Yeah. Any superstitions you buy into at all? Not a superstitious guy. Got go-to ice cream flavor. Cho chip cookie dough. Awesome. So there’s a sandwich called the Mikey Banks.

Build that sandwich. What are we eating, brother?

Michael Wish: Oh man, that’s got a lot of meat on it. It’s, I got it. Turkey salami. Yeah. We’ll do a little lettuce and tomato. We’ll do some mayo and we’ll definitely do some spicy sriracha on there. Love it. Some pepper jack cheese.

Coach Fergie: Yeah, throw a little man candy. A little bacon on there.

Might go good with that too. Oh, there you go. Love a little candy. Bacon. Favorite charity or an organization you’d like to give your time and or money to?

Michael Wish: [00:37:00] My own, if that’s okay. Please, foundation.

Coach Fergie: Yeah. I love it. Love it. Last question, you can elaborate on this one, but what’s the best decade of music? 1670s, eighties, or nineties?

Michael Wish: Oh, it’s gotta be. It’s gotta be the eighties. Thank you brother. Big hair, bands rock. Yes, dude. Synthesizer stuff. It was just a wild time, dude.

Coach Fergie: Like you listen to songs these days, they have the hooks from the eighties, like by Pit Bull has a hook from us. ? And like you said, big hair don’t care. , Invasion from Ireland with YouTube, men at work from Australia, Duran Duran.

Like you had all kinds and you had, , glam rock and , you had the heavy metal. It’s like everything happened, , rap. Kinda came out during that time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Curtis Blow and whatnot. So how can we find you, my friend?

Michael Wish: You can find me on Velle logos.com, which is V-E-L-L-E-L-O-G-O-S.

I think you’re gonna post that in the notes. You, , I’m also on, , I don’t know the socials, LinkedIn, Facebook, [00:38:00] YouTube, all that stuff, right? And then I’ve got a co a couple of communities, if you’re ready for that. Yeah, there’s the there’s the website there.

Coach Fergie: Gotcha. You have the communities over here, which is the AI or die, right?

Yeah. And then you also have the self architect. Let’s talk about the self architect brother. I know it’s just, yeah. So this one’s just launching, so it j

Michael Wish: Yeah. So I had it launched on a different platform. I’ve migrated platforms, that’s why it’s totally emptied right now. Okay. So I haven’t moved everyone in yet, but it’s it, it’s fully ready as of today.

And this is if you click on classroom, this is where I teach this self architect system. So this is, this is free. And this is where we figure out that that end state, what’s a good life worth living and how do we get there and which habits should we build and why? And learning strategies and all of this.

Beautiful. That’s the self architect. This one’s the

Coach Fergie: free one to join. Correct. Totally free. That’s right. Love it. Yep. Okay. And then the AI or Die, let’s talk about this one a little bit.

Michael Wish: So we launched this a couple of weeks ago. Me and my partner buddy rushing and we’re teaching folks how to use ai.

We, we tried to, we [00:39:00] originally started something a little bit more complex and we just found that a lot of folks. Hadn’t started to learn about it yet. So for anybody who’s feeling overwhelmed about ai, who, anybody who’s trying to figure out how to integrate it in their personal life and in their business, mm.

Come, come join us. We meet I, I do a q and a live q and a every single week. I’m in the community every single day. Both this and the self architect, and we help folks. Yeah. We help folks figure out how to use it.

Coach Fergie: I’m when, , a, a squad is interactive is when every post is not Michael Wish.

You know what I’m saying? There’s other people in here, Jonathan Sherwood, , surgeon. Like, it’s like, this is legit, man. Yeah. Go to the projects on

Michael Wish: this project. Go to the projects page. If you hit member projects there on the right a little lower. Little little to the right, right. There you go.

Member projects. Yeah. This is where folks. Figure out, how to, we, we give ’em lots of mini projects so that they actually have to I like it. Engage with it. Yeah. So I start each post. That’s why you see so many of mine. But then people, all the members go in and they, no, it’s legit

Coach Fergie: dude.

Michael Wish: Comment on their projects.

Yeah. This is awesome. [00:40:00]

Coach Fergie: Congratulations on this and squad. Thank you so much. I’ll drop all of this into the show notes as well. And the first person that puts Mikey Banks, that’s Mikey and spelled Banks, however you want. I will pay for a full year of this for you myself. This is how much I believe in this.

So again, Mikey Banks, drop it in any social or text it to 5 6 1 4 4 0 3 8 3 0 or just it, put it on Pinterest. I don’t care. Wherever you see this. Put it there. So that, that’s just amazing that you have this. So I gotta ask you though, yeah. When are you writing a book, bro? Well, it’s coming. We’re working on it right now.

I was gonna say, you have to write a book. I mean, that’s, that, that a hundred percent. You gotta write a book. So we’ve

Michael Wish: been, I’ve been working on the Self architect book for a while now. Right. That one’s still a little further away. I wanna make sure we get that right. The, the AI community. Actually we’re working on a book for that too.

Right. And that should be out in a month, maybe six weeks. Oh, beautiful. I dunno. We’ll, we’ll see. Yeah. Love it.

Coach Fergie: Love it. And do me one last favor, Mike. What? [00:41:00] Yeah. Leave us with one last knowledge nugget we can take with us, internalize, and take action on.

Michael Wish: I think, well, I think take action is the lesson.

Take, take action and fail forward, baby, because I love it. The, , the the good life is not for, for, for the weak and the meek and Right. If you, if you live your life. Joyfully. You experiment joyfully. You’re aggressively curious. You fail often. You are gonna have an amazing adventure in this life, and you’re gonna start to surround yourself with other people.

Who live life the same way, and it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be so much more, so much more purposeful than you can, you can possibly imagine the memory

Coach Fergie: banks you’ll pull from that. And squad, I just had like a masterclass here with my good friend, knew I was gonna have one look, good friend Michael, like, , he, he performs best in chaos and a lot of that goes back to the Marine Corps.

, He, he wants us to not be so fast to let ourselves down. Right. And if you’re gonna get into habits, really dial into the habits that you’re gonna work with. Again, as I always talk about goals or nothing but [00:42:00] byproducts of your standards and standards are built by your habits. So knock into the habits that you would like to, , lean into the most, , and reframe how you think of like success and failure.

, Like, again, success, what Michael explained was if success, meaning before you really leaned into and learned. What it is and the failure, you’re actually just learning something kinda right now. So really dig into what you’re passionate about and you will, that you’ll retain the information. , Like you talked about interleaving, where, , it’s like if you’re gonna study, if you have three different tests with Spanish Russian, and math, , study one 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes, and then circle back to the first one.

Right? And he wants you to experiment. Joyfully, , his dash. He’s gonna be remembered as a purpose for other people. He is gonna slide across home plate bumped and bruised, but knowing that he left the mark and family and friends that knew he cared and lived a life. The, , four other people, I mean this guy’s planting trees he’s never gonna sit in the shade of, and that’s the kinda squad [00:43:00] I like to be around.

And he does things for the intention, not the attention. If you go to any of his stuff, it’s not Lambos and all this stuff. You actually genuine caring for the people he works with and he’s always continuing to love up. Michael, you’ve earned your varsity squad letter here at time to sign today. Thank you so much for coming on.

You level up your health, you level up your wealth. You’re all right for a Marine. I’m just kidding. But no, I just love it, man. And just, I can’t wait to do some collaborations with you in the future, brother. I absolutely love your guts.

Michael Wish: Thanks, Scott. This was phenomenal. I really appreciate you having me on.

This has been, this has been really great. BeCoach Fergie: Brother Chat soon.